AAA 120 Travesty of Competition

[aaacoach89]

Friday morning of state tournament as soon as weigh ins are finished. This year's meeting might be interesting.

Remember, even if the coaches agree and present it to the WVSSAC, they must still approve.

There needs to be a meeting (conference call) right after the regional tournaments and put a band-aid (bye filling wrestler) on this situation.

Who would one contact or call, to get this addressed? I have no issue with making a call and presenting the information. Again, not sure how much good it would do coming from me, but I have never had an issue with speaking up. Bearhugger, can you re post the Regions that will not have enough wrestlers in weight classes to fill, in other words what weight classes will have byes/forfeits in the State Tourney due to lack of numbers?

The worst thing that can happen is they tell me that it is too late and they won't fix it this year, best case scenario a band-aid is put in place. I'd say the more coaches that call and voice their opinion immediately, the better the odds.

[coach_williams]

Another question. Does the 5th place finisher score team points at the state tournament? I'm guessing that they would since they are filling a void.

You would have plenty of coaches calling "foul" if it wasn't a wrestler from their region or team. Again, I'm guessing.......

My 2 pennies would be no based on two factors.

1) He/she did not qualify originally for states and thus, is a fill-in. He/she should not be contributing to team scores when he/she did not actually qualify for states. It would be unfair to teams who did qualify wrestlers to have a wrestler who would not normally be there and got in by default scoring for their team.

2) If his/her team already had a qualifier at that weight class then the team would have two scorers in the same weight class. Definitely not fair.

[coach_williams]

You are correct. Spring Mills, Martinsburg and Jefferson have no 120. My question is what do you expect someone to do about it? What is the "fix" that you want? There are no JV 120 wrestlers to move into those open spots on those teams. I assume those teams also have no JV 113 they could bump up (I know Spring Mills does not) or I assume they would have done it. The only possible fix I see is to eliminate the regions all together and take the top 16 to states, but we know that isn't going to happen this year.

The fix "we" want is for a wrestler to be dug up from another region and fill this void. Participation in wrestling is terrible. The rules and systems are stacked against the kids who want to wrestle.

I get that.

We all know where you would want the fill-in to come from, but who makes that decision? There is hardly enough time between regionals and states to have a wrestle-off. There would need to be a criteria decided upon.

[Sally]

This is all hypothetical. In reference to the 5th placer being moved into the BYE position in the bracket, he or she must be a scoring wrestler. If the criteria moved the wrestler into the tournament then they score team points. Now you might begin to see the human factor become involved.

Currently when a qualifier is injured and cannot compete at States, the 5th placer moves up and becomes a scoring wrestler.

[coach_williams]

This is all hypothetical. In reference to the 5th placer being moved into the BYE position in the bracket, he or she must be a scoring wrestler. If the criteria moved the wrestler into the tournament then they score team points. Now you might begin to see the human factor become involved.

Currently when a qualifier is injured and cannot compete at States, the 5th placer moves up and becomes a scoring wrestler.

This is a gray area. I see your point. I guess I would only have an issue with it if a JV wrestler was the one moved into the bracket and it resulted in two scorers from the same team in the bracket.

[Bearhugger]

Another question. Does the 5th place finisher score team points at the state tournament? I'm guessing that they would since they are filling a void.

You would have plenty of coaches calling "foul" if it wasn't a wrestler from their region or team. Again, I'm guessing.......

My 2 pennies would be no based on two factors.

1) He/she did not qualify originally for states and thus, is a fill-in. He/she should not be contributing to team scores when he/she did not actually qualify for states. It would be unfair to teams who did qualify wrestlers to have a wrestler who would not normally be there and got in by default scoring for their team.

2) If his/her team already had a qualifier at that weight class then the team would have two scorers in the same weight class. Definitely not fair.

South is going to win AAA. Independence is going to win AA/A. I really doubt this "bye filling wrestler" is going to shake up the team scores. Finishing 11th instead of 12th might be some kind of moral victory for some teams, but nobody will remember 3 minutes after they read the final results.

There will not be two wrestlers from the same school in the same weight class.

[Bearhugger]

You are correct. Spring Mills, Martinsburg and Jefferson have no 120. My question is what do you expect someone to do about it? What is the "fix" that you want? There are no JV 120 wrestlers to move into those open spots on those teams. I assume those teams also have no JV 113 they could bump up (I know Spring Mills does not) or I assume they would have done it. The only possible fix I see is to eliminate the regions all together and take the top 16 to states, but we know that isn't going to happen this year.

The fix "we" want is for a wrestler to be dug up from another region and fill this void. Participation in wrestling is terrible. The rules and systems are stacked against the kids who want to wrestle.

I get that.

We all know where you would want the fill-in to come from, but who makes that decision? There is hardly enough time between regionals and states to have a wrestle-off. There would need to be a criteria decided upon.

Establish the criteria today.

There could be a pigtail for 2 out of 3 fifth place finishers.

The world moves fast. It is time for everybody to catch up.

[Bearhugger]

This is all hypothetical. In reference to the 5th placer being moved into the BYE position in the bracket, he or she must be a scoring wrestler. If the criteria moved the wrestler into the tournament then they score team points. Now you might begin to see the human factor become involved.

Currently when a qualifier is injured and cannot compete at States, the 5th placer moves up and becomes a scoring wrestler.

This is a gray area. I see your point. I guess I would only have an issue with it if a JV wrestler was the one moved into the bracket and it resulted in two scorers from the same team in the bracket.

The logical choice is a regional 5th place finisher.

[Bearhugger]

This is all hypothetical. In reference to the 5th placer being moved into the BYE position in the bracket, he or she must be a scoring wrestler. If the criteria moved the wrestler into the tournament then they score team points. Now you might begin to see the human factor become involved.

Currently when a qualifier is injured and cannot compete at States, the 5th placer moves up and becomes a scoring wrestler.

The only time "scoring of zero points" was mentioned was if there was a pigtail match between 2 fifth place winners to see who moves on.

[coach_williams]

The logical choice is a regional 5th place finisher.

Before you had wanted a JV wrestler to fill gaps. I was thinking in that regard.

[Bearhugger]

The logical choice is a regional 5th place finisher.

Before you had wanted a JV wrestler to fill gaps. I was thinking in that regard.

I have NEVER wanted a JV wrestler to fill gaps.

When I have mentioned the JV aspect of the sport, I said to allow them to enter the regional tournaments, allow them to compete and earn a spot in the top four. You have to keep this stuff straight.

[Frank]

The logical choice is a regional 5th place finisher.

Before you had wanted a JV wrestler to fill gaps. I was thinking in that regard.

I have NEVER wanted a JV wrestler to fill gaps.

When I have mentioned the JV aspect of the sport, I said to allow them to enter the regional tournaments, allow them to compete and earn a spot in the top four. You have to keep this stuff straight.

Get the brain out of neutral

[Frank]

I'm for doing away with brackets at the state tournament and just doing a big ol round robin

[Gator]

Over the top rope battle royal!

Vince McMahon for WVSSAC President!

[Sally]

South is going to win AAA. Independence is going to win AA/A. I really doubt this "bye filling wrestler" is going to shake up the team scores. Finishing 11th instead of 12th might be some kind of moral victory for some teams, but nobody will remember 3 minutes after they read the final results.

There will not be two wrestlers from the same school in the same weight class.

I agree with your two picks bearhugger.

I have a lot of useless memory in my head.....But in regards to a 5th place wrestler moving up and "Shaking up the team scores", please check the 2009 Region I AA/A results 189Ib class.

Then check the state tournament results for the following weekend in 2009 AA/A 189Ib class.

[coach_williams]

The logical choice is a regional 5th place finisher.

Before you had wanted a JV wrestler to fill gaps. I was thinking in that regard.

I have NEVER wanted a JV wrestler to fill gaps.

When I have mentioned the JV aspect of the sport, I said to allow them to enter the regional tournaments, allow them to compete and earn a spot in the top four. You have to keep this stuff straight.

Don't get your panties twisted up. Have a beer. Relax.

[coach_williams]

South is going to win AAA. Independence is going to win AA/A. I really doubt this "bye filling wrestler" is going to shake up the team scores. Finishing 11th instead of 12th might be some kind of moral victory for some teams, but nobody will remember 3 minutes after they read the final results.

There will not be two wrestlers from the same school in the same weight class.

Nice to know you think everyone but South and Indy are irrelevant. I can't imagine how wrestling will ever get better in the state if everyone sees it the same way. Imagine all of the wrestlers reading this right now and seeing someone who claims to be a fan of the sport proclaiming that 3 minutes after reading the results their entire season will mean nothing if they were not wearing a South or Indy singlet.

[aaacoach89]

Who needs to be contacted to make this happen once rosters are submitted for Regionals? Who specifically at the WVSSAC needs to be called or spoken to?

[mike.carman]

Who needs to be contacted to make this happen once rosters are submitted for Regionals? Who specifically at the WVSSAC needs to be called or spoken to?

The WVSSAC rules committee will not even listen this year and I believe the deadline to submit rules changes for next year has passed as well. We may be looking at 2 years out for a fix at this point. They only vote on rules changes once a year and proposals need submitted well in advance.

[coach_williams]

Who needs to be contacted to make this happen once rosters are submitted for Regionals? Who specifically at the WVSSAC needs to be called or spoken to?

Wayne Ryan is over wrestling, but I imagine the Wrestling Committee would have to be involved. Unless it has changed, the committee is Mark Delligatti, Fairmont Sr., Bill Whittington, Hedgesville HS, Sterling Beane, Braxton HS, Rob Archer, Huntington HS, Chad Sarrett, Woodrow Wilson, Jeremy Tincher, Greenbrier West, Ken Maisel, University, Pat McGillan, Oak Glen and Jeff Givens, Williamstown.

[aaacoach89]

Who needs to be contacted to make this happen once rosters are submitted for Regionals? Who specifically at the WVSSAC needs to be called or spoken to?

The WVSSAC rules committee will not even listen this year and I believe the deadline to submit rules changes for next year has passed as well. We may be looking at 2 years out for a fix at this point. They only vote on rules changes once a year and proposals need submitted well in advance.

And that is a huge problem! So much hoop jumping, red tape cutting, steps in the way of making real change. It's so frustrating that a simple undeniable problem is present, and realistic simple solution is available, but we are looking at 2 years possibly to get a resolution? How exactly is this what's best for the kids and the sport?

[Diamond]

South is going to win AAA. Independence is going to win AA/A. I really doubt this "bye filling wrestler" is going to shake up the team scores. Finishing 11th instead of 12th might be some kind of moral victory for some teams, but nobody will remember 3 minutes after they read the final results.

There will not be two wrestlers from the same school in the same weight class.

Nice to know you think everyone but South and Indy are irrelevant. I can't imagine how wrestling will ever get better in the state if everyone sees it the same way. Imagine all of the wrestlers reading this right now and seeing someone who claims to be a fan of the sport proclaiming that 3 minutes after reading the results their entire season will mean nothing if they were not wearing a South or Indy singlet.

They might both win but I'll guarantee while the team champion photos are being taken, everyone won't be smiling.

[Gator]

They might both win but I'll guarantee while the team champion photos are being taken, everyone won't be smiling.

I sense some hate. Makes me hungry!

[Diamond]

They might both win but I'll guarantee while the team champion photos are being taken, everyone won't be smiling.

I sense some hate. Makes me hungry!

No hate at all. Maybe a little envy of the solid lineups these teams can produce ,all I'm saying is while each team can boast a team victory they're not #1 in each head to head. Snack on that!

[Gator]

:D

They might both win but I'll guarantee while the team champion photos are being taken, everyone won't be smiling.

I sense some hate. Makes me hungry!

No hate at all. Maybe a little envy of the solid lineups these teams can produce ,all I'm saying is while each team can boast a team victory they're not #1 in each head to head. Snack on that!

I don't recall anyone saying they were #1 in all the head to head battles. Plenty of great wrestlers out there with many different teams. I do love to snack!

[Diamond]

:D

I sense some hate. Makes me hungry!

No hate at all. Maybe a little envy of the solid lineups these teams can produce ,all I'm saying is while each team can boast a team victory they're not #1 in each head to head. Snack on that!

I don't recall anyone saying they were #1 in all the head to head battles. Plenty of great wrestlers out there with many different teams. I do love to snack!

All I'm saying is the moral victory that a kid on the 11th or 12th place team that no one will remember 3 minutes after they announce the team champions will be the individual title he just won. You n bear can't win every argument.

[Sally]

Truly I feel no person on here is trying to win an argument. They are deeply passionate plus they share a strong opinion for our sport. That's great news when so many responses are happening on the forum.

Maybe HuggieBear isn't at work or burning the midnight oil yet, but the "puzzle" I posted above has no response yet. Oak Glen was able to win their final consecutive state in 2009 with major help from a 5th place finisher on their team.

I know bearhugger is a proponent of making the state tournament better all around. This 5th place finisher and results might help his quest.

[Gator]

Yeah, I didn't know we were having an argument. A discussion maybe. My wife likes to argue, if you'd like to meet her.

Sally, I remember that 5th place finisher making that statement in 2009. The young man got an opportunity and took advantage of it and finished 5th in the region and 2nd in the state tournament. Quite a storybook finish!

[Sally]

Yes! Another man with useless information in his head besides me! Gator look at the team finishes 2009 states, and maybe look closer at the quarterfinal matchup in the top bracket. Remember championship bracket is worth twice than consolation. I'm just trying to poke the bear.

I would love to meet Mrs. Gator. However in 10 years of marriage I know how to pick my battles.

[wrestler152215]

This isnt the first time there will be a bye at the state tournament. In the 2004 AAA state tournament there were 3 byes at the 103 pound class. Region 4 had 2 byes, Region 3 had 1 bye. That year Region 2 had a 5th place finisher stay home and Region 1 had a 5th and 6th place finsher stay home. Those three wrestler could have been placed in the three vacant spots in the tournament but they were not. I know it was thirteen years ago, but if it was not a concern to the wvssac then i doubt it will be now. Just my opinion.