N.I.L.

[Bearhugger]

I hear a lot of talk about NIL opportunities that exist at many universities.

What kind of NIL opportunities are any of the WVU wrestlers getting?

[KDunbar]

Don't know, but maybe nil is the answer. Or was this a rhetorical question?

[Jon Perkins]

The NIL deals are in fact the dirty little secrets of NCAA wrestling. How much are the athletes getting paid and who is paying them? Not many people can speak with certainty on the NIL deals. If you pay close enough attention one can put a few things together to get a better understanding, not a clear understanding but a better understanding.

My guess is, and it is only guess because I only have observations and no actual facts. The wrestlers on WVU's team have very few NIL deals, and what deals they do have, are only coming from the camps and clinics that they help with. A few of the wrestlers could be getting money from the RTC, or the Mountaineer Wrestling Club, to help offset some of the cost for tuition, room and board, and books. I have not heard of anyone on the wrestling team being sponsored by any local business.

For the class of 2023 Michigan has 6 Top 40 recruits coming in and for the class of 2024 Penn State has 6 Top 20 recruits coming in. Both of these teams have RTC's with very large budgets and bank accounts. There is no way that either of these teams are going to blow 50-60% of their athletic scholarships for 4 to 5 years on just one recruiting class. My best guess is that each of these teams are using 20-30% of their athletic scholarships and compensating the rest with money from the RTC in the way of NIL deals. I would assume if a team could afford it, they could offer someone an NIL deal large enough to cover 100% of their schooling for 4 years and use that scholarship money somewhere else.

The NIL is going to make it vey difficult for some teams to recruit top talent and will make it even more difficult for those teams to keep their top talent. There have been several All Americans enter the transfer portal and it is no secret that they are looking for an NIL deal.

This is a good topic, I hope those with more knowledge weigh in and enlighten us with more details and facts on these NIL deals. Then we can talk about how it may or may not affect the sport in the future.

[Jon Perkins]

This is a good topic and it peeked my interest to find out more about the NIL stuff. Here is what I have found by asking a few questions and several google searches.

Each university in the Power 5 conferences have a group of people that obtain corporate sponsors and individual donations called "Collectives". These groups are completely separate from and have no affiliation with the athletic department of university they represent. The collective group at WVU is called the "Country Roads Trust". This is a privately owned business, because it is an LLC, that was created by Oliver Luck and Ken Kendrick, in January of 2022. It currently has four board members, one of those people is the wife of the Head Coach of the Baseball team, and an advisory board made up of 9 people, which includes 6 former basketball and football players.

The Country Roads Trust sponsors 180 athletes and 67% of them belong to the football, baseball, and the men's and women's basketball teams. That leaves 1/3 of their budget to be divided among the rest of the sports teams. Of that 1/3, the Golf team, women's soccer team, Volleyball team, and the Rifle teams are almost entirely sponsored by the Country Roads Trust. I find it peculiar that certain sports get very well taken care of, while the rest have to fight for scraps. The whole concept is about marketability and who is to say the golf team is more marketable than the wrestling team.

This is the organization that should be trying to attract the high level recruits and increasing the number of All-American athletes that come from WVU.

[Doyablameme?]

I wonder if discontinuing the wrestling program has been considered. It sounds so …. Hopeless.

[Jon Perkins]

I wonder if discontinuing the wrestling program has been considered. It sounds so …. Hopeless.

The Country Roads Trust would have nothing to do with that decision. It is a completely separate entity. It is just not WVU’s collective group, the majority of these collectives do not spend a lot of money on their wrestling team. There is less than 10 in the entire country that front a lot money to their wrestling team. This is definitely an avenue that has to be opened up to help draw top talent. The question is will they do what they say their mission is and pay all the athletes to help them their Name, Image, and Likeness.

[KDunbar]

So one quetion would be, who is becoming wealthier, the collective and those involved or the atheletes the NIL idea was supposedly developed for?

[Jon Perkins]

So one question would be, who is becoming wealthier, the collective and those involved or the athletes the NIL idea was supposedly developed for?

If you go to their site, it says that 100% of the money goes toward the athletes. I don't see how that can be if they are an LLC, if 100% of the money went toward the athletes then they would be a Non-Profit organization. My biggest concern is why isn't every team represented on the advisory board. I am not the biggest sports fan in the world, outside of wrestling, but why are all these former football and basketball players on this board that no one has ever heard of or cares about. The money this board brings in should somewhat be distributed evenly, how is the wrestling team or the women's tennis team going to get any money if their voice is not heard.

In doing my research on this, the wrestling has produced more All-American athletes in the last four years than any other sport except the Rifle team. So another question is why they wouldn't be putting money into one of the top performing programs?

[Bearhugger]

So one question would be, who is becoming wealthier, the collective and those involved or the athletes the NIL idea was supposedly developed for?

If you go to their site, it says that 100% of the money goes toward the athletes. I don't see how that can be if they are an LLC, if 100% of the money went toward the athletes then they would be a Non-Profit organization. My biggest concern is why isn't every team represented on the advisory board. I am not the biggest sports fan in the world, outside of wrestling, but why are all these former football and basketball players on this board that no one has ever heard of or cares about. The money this board brings in should somewhat be distributed evenly, how is the wrestling team or the women's tennis team going to get any money if their voice is not heard.

In doing my research on this, the wrestling has produced more All-American athletes in the last four years than any other sport except the Rifle team. So another question is why they wouldn't be putting money into one of the top performing programs?

Top performing programs? I am glad WVU has new Athletic Director.

[KDunbar]

So one question would be, who is becoming wealthier, the collective and those involved or the athletes the NIL idea was supposedly developed for?

If you go to their site, it says that 100% of the money goes toward the athletes. I don't see how that can be if they are an LLC, if 100% of the money went toward the athletes then they would be a Non-Profit organization. My biggest concern is why isn't every team represented on the advisory board. I am not the biggest sports fan in the world, outside of wrestling, but why are all these former football and basketball players on this board that no one has ever heard of or cares about. The money this board brings in should somewhat be distributed evenly, how is the wrestling team or the women's tennis team going to get any money if their voice is not heard.

In doing my research on this, the wrestling has produced more All-American athletes in the last four years than any other sport except the Rifle team. So another question is why they wouldn't be putting money into one of the top performing programs?

Top performing programs? I am glad WVU has new Athletic Director.

If it was me, I would be putting whomever I wanted on the board of my LLC that I could have the most control over and who would be most likely to just go along with whatever I said. For example, young, inexperienced athletes who are likely just happy to be there.

[Doyablameme?]

Well, it sounds to me like being really good in 23-24 is OUT of the question.

[armyscot0873]

So one question would be, who is becoming wealthier, the collective and those involved or the athletes the NIL idea was supposedly developed for?

If you go to their site, it says that 100% of the money goes toward the athletes. I don't see how that can be if they are an LLC, if 100% of the money went toward the athletes then they would be a Non-Profit organization. My biggest concern is why isn't every team represented on the advisory board. I am not the biggest sports fan in the world, outside of wrestling, but why are all these former football and basketball players on this board that no one has ever heard of or cares about. The money this board brings in should somewhat be distributed evenly, how is the wrestling team or the women's tennis team going to get any money if their voice is not heard.

In doing my research on this, the wrestling has produced more All-American athletes in the last four years than any other sport except the Rifle team. So another question is why they wouldn't be putting money into one of the top performing programs?

They are ran by millionaire boosters, so the ones managing the trust are not taking a salary because they dont need the money. Its not a non-profit because the athletes working for them (seen as independent contractors) are making a profit. The athletes have to pay taxes and get a 1099 for these funds. Now the trust has accountants and administration that are not working for free, they are seen as necessary to get the funding to the athletes so that cost would be seen as going to the athletes. These amounts are not supposed to have anything to do with the school or be connected in anyway. That is why Wren Baker is here. He is well known for his fund raising. Shane Lyons was all about compliance and could not adapt to the new NIL. Lots of funds are being funneled through the Trust, it just depends if wrestling is made a priority. For example Coach Huggs is lets it been known that he is interested in a recruit or transfer, then the trust contacts the athlete and negotiates a NIL deal with them. Other schools are doing the same thing and the athlete decides what is the best place for them. All the NIL is doing is bringing the back deal secret envelops out of the dark and making them legal.

[armyscot0873]

So one question would be, who is becoming wealthier, the collective and those involved or the athletes the NIL idea was supposedly developed for?

If you go to their site, it says that 100% of the money goes toward the athletes. I don't see how that can be if they are an LLC, if 100% of the money went toward the athletes then they would be a Non-Profit organization. My biggest concern is why isn't every team represented on the advisory board. I am not the biggest sports fan in the world, outside of wrestling, but why are all these former football and basketball players on this board that no one has ever heard of or cares about. The money this board brings in should somewhat be distributed evenly, how is the wrestling team or the women's tennis team going to get any money if their voice is not heard.

In doing my research on this, the wrestling has produced more All-American athletes in the last four years than any other sport except the Rifle team. So another question is why they wouldn't be putting money into one of the top performing programs?

They are ran by millionaire boosters, so the ones managing the trust are not taking a salary because they dont need the money. Its not a non-profit because the athletes working for them (seen as independent contractors) are making a profit. The athletes have to pay taxes and get a 1099 for these funds. Now the trust has accountants and administration that are not working for free, they are seen as necessary to get the funding to the athletes so that cost would be seen as going to the athletes. These amounts are not supposed to have anything to do with the school or be connected in anyway. That is why Wren Baker is here. He is well known for his fund raising. Shane Lyons was all about compliance and could not adapt to the new NIL. Lots of funds are being funneled through the Trust, it just depends if wrestling is made a priority. For example Coach Huggs is lets it been known that he is interested in a recruit or transfer, then the trust contacts the athlete and negotiates a NIL deal with them. Other schools are doing the same thing and the athlete decides what is the best place for them. All the NIL is doing is bringing the back deal secret envelops out of the dark and making them legal.

[Jon Perkins]

Very good input there. The main concern I have, and every other wrestling fan should have, is why are they spending so much money on other sports and not the wrestling team? And why is the wrestling team not represented on the advisory board? If this trust was established to help all athletes, which is what they claim, then all of the athletes should be represented. If they can afford to pay a quarterback to throw 3 interceptions a game and lead the football team to a 3-7 record, then they should be able to front some cash to an All-American on the wrestling team or a Top 50 recruit to help offset some of the cost their scholarship may not cover.

[Bearhugger]

Very good input there. The main concern I have, and every other wrestling fan should have, is why are they spending so much money on other sports and not the wrestling team? And why is the wrestling team not represented on the advisory board? If this trust was established to help all athletes, which is what they claim, then all of the athletes should be represented. If they can afford to pay a quarterback to throw 3 interceptions a game and lead the football team to a 3-7 record, then they should be able to front some cash to an All-American on the wrestling team or a Top 50 recruit to help offset some of the cost their scholarship may not cover.

Perhaps the advisory board doesn't know WVU has a wrestling team.

[armyscot0873]

They may say they want to help all athletes and I am sure they do, but they are always going to help revenue sports and their own interests first. Oliver Luck was QB for WVU football, Ken Kendrick owns the Arizona Diamondbacks, Huggs is a hall of fame coach and the active coach with the most wins in the NCAA, rifle has multiple national championships. WVU just doesnt have a great wrestling tradition or success. If like has been said on here Flynn does not like to fund raise then they need to get someone who can. I am sure that the wrestling team will get some funds from the Trust but it is going to be scraps unless they can provide the entertainment value, have a fan of the program come into a lot of money, or have a company that has an interest in wrestling.