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Are there any preliminary predictions of any wrestlers weighing 220 or less that plan to make a run this season at 285?

After what happened last year I I certainly hope not, but it wouldn't surprise me if someone did.

WrestlingFan1 wrote:After what happened last year I I certainly hope not, but it wouldn't surprise me if someone did.

What happened last year?

For years people have cut weight to avoid tough weight classes now the trend we are looking for is for kids to bump up for an easier road to the finals? It may be that they are not running to 285 but instead are naturally growing into the next weight and can't hold 182 which makes the returning 195 move up and dominoes fall if the team also has everyone returning then someone needs to either sit the bench or lose weight.
Graduation and moving away thinned out some of the upper weights I don't see the returning depth for wrestlers to consider jumping up 60 pounds to avoid someone at 195 or 220 in A/AA this year plus the 285 champ is returning anyway. In AAA to avoid the returning 1st, 3rd, 4th at 220 might be jumping out of the pan into the fire at 285 because 1st 2nd and 4th return there.

To Bearhugger I would say that Swafford is the answer to his question. He is not afraid to go up against anyone at any weight. Not sure what he weighed last year and the year before but he always seemed smaller than the opponent I never see him at states because I am on the wrong end but he is fun to watch at other tournaments adding excitement to heavyweight matches.

Two seasons ago, Swafford was at 220 before finishing 2016 at 285. Last season I heard he was around 220 still.

Another wild card is Ripley's BJ Haynes. He has been a tough match up for everybody the past 3 seasons. He has told me the past two seasons that he might go back down to 195. With Jarvis' graduation, I doubt Ripley's team will suffer any with Haynes at 195. Personally, I would like to see him at 195 and go out on top.

ZZChooseTop wrote:

WrestlingFan1 wrote:After what happened last year I I certainly hope not, but it wouldn't surprise me if someone did.

What happened last year?

For years people have cut weight to avoid tough weight classes now the trend we are looking for is for kids to bump up for an easier road to the finals? It may be that they are not running to 285 but instead are naturally growing into the next weight and can't hold 182 which makes the returning 195 move up and dominoes fall if the team also has everyone returning then someone needs to either sit the bench or lose weight.
Graduation and moving away thinned out some of the upper weights I don't see the returning depth for wrestlers to consider jumping up 60 pounds to avoid someone at 195 or 220 in A/AA this year plus the 285 champ is returning anyway. In AAA to avoid the returning 1st, 3rd, 4th at 220 might be jumping out of the pan into the fire at 285 because 1st 2nd and 4th return there.

To Bearhugger I would say that Swafford is the answer to his question. He is not afraid to go up against anyone at any weight. Not sure what he weighed last year and the year before but he always seemed smaller than the opponent I never see him at states because I am on the wrong end but he is fun to watch at other tournaments adding excitement to heavyweight matches.

What happened last year? How about working to get better instead of taking the easy way out, and barely gaining enough weight to wrestle HWT anyway, just a thought.

WrestlingFan1 wrote:

ZZChooseTop wrote:

WrestlingFan1 wrote:After what happened last year I I certainly hope not, but it wouldn't surprise me if someone did.

What happened last year?

For years people have cut weight to avoid tough weight classes now the trend we are looking for is for kids to bump up for an easier road to the finals? It may be that they are not running to 285 but instead are naturally growing into the next weight and can't hold 182 which makes the returning 195 move up and dominoes fall if the team also has everyone returning then someone needs to either sit the bench or lose weight.
Graduation and moving away thinned out some of the upper weights I don't see the returning depth for wrestlers to consider jumping up 60 pounds to avoid someone at 195 or 220 in A/AA this year plus the 285 champ is returning anyway. In AAA to avoid the returning 1st, 3rd, 4th at 220 might be jumping out of the pan into the fire at 285 because 1st 2nd and 4th return there.

To Bearhugger I would say that Swafford is the answer to his question. He is not afraid to go up against anyone at any weight. Not sure what he weighed last year and the year before but he always seemed smaller than the opponent I never see him at states because I am on the wrong end but he is fun to watch at other tournaments adding excitement to heavyweight matches.

What happened last year? How about working to get better instead of taking the easy way out, and barely gaining enough weight to wrestle HWT anyway, just a thought.

I like this idea better!

WrestlingFan1 wrote:

ZZChooseTop wrote:

WrestlingFan1 wrote:After what happened last year I I certainly hope not, but it wouldn't surprise me if someone did.

What happened last year?

For years people have cut weight to avoid tough weight classes now the trend we are looking for is for kids to bump up for an easier road to the finals? It may be that they are not running to 285 but instead are naturally growing into the next weight and can't hold 182 which makes the returning 195 move up and dominoes fall if the team also has everyone returning then someone needs to either sit the bench or lose weight.
Graduation and moving away thinned out some of the upper weights I don't see the returning depth for wrestlers to consider jumping up 60 pounds to avoid someone at 195 or 220 in A/AA this year plus the 285 champ is returning anyway. In AAA to avoid the returning 1st, 3rd, 4th at 220 might be jumping out of the pan into the fire at 285 because 1st 2nd and 4th return there.

To Bearhugger I would say that Swafford is the answer to his question. He is not afraid to go up against anyone at any weight. Not sure what he weighed last year and the year before but he always seemed smaller than the opponent I never see him at states because I am on the wrong end but he is fun to watch at other tournaments adding excitement to heavyweight matches.

What happened last year? How about working to get better instead of taking the easy way out, and barely gaining enough weight to wrestle HWT anyway, just a thought.

That same rationale could be used to argue that a kid should never cut weight...not even a pounds or two....just work hard and get better. Even most state champs who would likely still win at the weight class above are cutting down a little from their natural weight. Its silly to be critical of a kid for moving up or down in weight.

Yea it makes a lot more sense to starve yourself going down a weight and risk health problems than to put on some weight and try to win at a higher weight. Moving classes is moving classes.

Don't mean to sound naive, but do the weight loss regulations in place not remove the safety and health risk by not allowing kids to remove more weight than is safe? That was and is their intent based on measuring body fat and evidence of dehydration. Are they not yet strict enough?

KDunbar wrote:Don't mean to sound naive, but do the weight loss regulations in place not remove the safety and health risk by not allowing kids to remove more weight than is safe? That was and is their intent based on measuring body fat and evidence of dehydration. Are they not yet strict enough?

They are plenty strict. The system in place does remove or limit the danger of cutting the wrong way. If the coaches are on the issue and educate their wrestlers on how to properly do this, it's not a big deal. Starting a cut in mid September or early October is the safest way to doing things. Simple calorie restriction, to create a calorie deficit is not unhealthy. Based on the body fat %'s is see from the skin caliper tests, these kids have plenty of body fat to lose, so as long as they stay hydrated and eat vegetables and lean meats to stay strong......the weight will fall, and it isn't unhealthy.

It's also not running to drop to a weight class where one can be more competitive, or place higher. It's called winning last I checked. Strategy and putting your athletes in the best possible position to score the most team points and place the highest in competition is a coaches job I thought.

I totally agree with what you are saying. Most peoples statements about "running" from competition is just a way of being mean or derogatory. It would be equivalent to saying that any wrestler isn't really that good or they would be wrestling up a weight class higher than what they certify at. Why not say that wrestlers aren't really as good as everyone says unless they move up the two weight classes they are allowed to and are thus "running" from tougher competition. With all this being said, I do wish more wrestlers in WV would not just try to reduce fat % to a minimum to lose weight, but replace fat with muscle and stay at the weight they are at.

KDunbar wrote:I totally agree with what you are saying. Most peoples statements about "running" from competition is just a way of being mean or derogatory. It would be equivalent to saying that any wrestler isn't really that good or they would be wrestling up a weight class higher than what they certify at. Why not say that wrestlers aren't really as good as everyone says unless they move up the two weight classes they are allowed to and are thus "running" from tougher competition. With all this being said, I do wish more wrestlers in WV would not just try to reduce fat % to a minimum to lose weight, but replace fat with muscle and stay at the weight they are at.

I agree with you. Lets just say that the average difference between each weight class is 6 pounds. Kids should put it the right kind of work in the off season both on the mat and IN THE WEIGHT ROOM. If the weight room work is consistent and effective, those six pounds should not make any difference if the wrestler doesn't cut. However, losing those 6 pounds could make the wrestler miserable.

I do recognize that certain teams are stacked with talent. That usually leads to one or two wrestlers having to cut miserably to make the varsity line up and help the team.

Bearhugger wrote:

KDunbar wrote:I totally agree with what you are saying. Most peoples statements about "running" from competition is just a way of being mean or derogatory. It would be equivalent to saying that any wrestler isn't really that good or they would be wrestling up a weight class higher than what they certify at. Why not say that wrestlers aren't really as good as everyone says unless they move up the two weight classes they are allowed to and are thus "running" from tougher competition. With all this being said, I do wish more wrestlers in WV would not just try to reduce fat % to a minimum to lose weight, but replace fat with muscle and stay at the weight they are at.

I agree with you. Lets just say that the average difference between each weight class is 6 pounds. Kids should put it the right kind of work in the off season both on the mat and IN THE WEIGHT ROOM. If the weight room work is consistent and effective, those six pounds should not make any difference if the wrestler doesn't cut. However, losing those 6 pounds could make the wrestler miserable.

I do recognize that certain teams are stacked with talent. That usually leads to one or two wrestlers having to cut miserably to make the varsity line up and help the team.

I understand the point both of you are making. What I am saying is that most wrestlers I see, coach, and deal with are sitting +12-15% body fat. Some are at the 19-20% mark. Some of your lower weight classes or more chiseled (muscular appearing) wrestlers are sitting at 8-10%. Anything under 7% in WV, to my understanding, and you have to produce a physicians note clearing them to compete. We had to produce one for our 106 two years ago, as he was at 6%. As for replacing the fat with muscle I agree totally, but a pound is a pound. Losing 6-10 pounds of fat, and replacing it with 6-10 pounds of muscle is more involved that just hitting the weight room. It is diet, what type of exercise you are doing, rest, etc...... My thought is that off season is for hitting big weight, doing speed, agility, and explosiveness work. The calorie intake should increase to feed the body, so it can repair itself and grow.....this is putting on that muscle everyone wants to talk about. I say about 2-3 months out of season, it is time to shift gears. It is time to focus on muscular endurance and steady state cardio. This tends to shed that excess body fat and take the bulk and give it a more lean appearance and function. You will lose some 1RM power, but you will gain functional muscle. The calorie intake needs to be reduced to a level that creates a calorie deficit. This sheds the body fat. The diet needs to increase in protein and vegetables, and reduce the fat and limit carb intake. This way as the body needs fuel, it will feed on body fat and not muscle. It gives you the best of both worlds.... If you can take a kid with the strength and power of a 132 and have him wrestling at 120 or 126......he stands a better chance. I disagree entirely with the starving, bathroom sauna, trash bag wearing weight cut methods.....it just requires some self discipline, guidance, and education to get the best of both. That's why big time college programs pay so much to their S/C coaches and nutrition people.

aaacoach89 wrote:

Bearhugger wrote:

KDunbar wrote:I totally agree with what you are saying. Most peoples statements about "running" from competition is just a way of being mean or derogatory. It would be equivalent to saying that any wrestler isn't really that good or they would be wrestling up a weight class higher than what they certify at. Why not say that wrestlers aren't really as good as everyone says unless they move up the two weight classes they are allowed to and are thus "running" from tougher competition. With all this being said, I do wish more wrestlers in WV would not just try to reduce fat % to a minimum to lose weight, but replace fat with muscle and stay at the weight they are at.

I agree with you. Lets just say that the average difference between each weight class is 6 pounds. Kids should put it the right kind of work in the off season both on the mat and IN THE WEIGHT ROOM. If the weight room work is consistent and effective, those six pounds should not make any difference if the wrestler doesn't cut. However, losing those 6 pounds could make the wrestler miserable.

I do recognize that certain teams are stacked with talent. That usually leads to one or two wrestlers having to cut miserably to make the varsity line up and help the team.

I understand the point both of you are making. What I am saying is that most wrestlers I see, coach, and deal with are sitting +12-15% body fat. Some are at the 19-20% mark. Some of your lower weight classes or more chiseled (muscular appearing) wrestlers are sitting at 8-10%. Anything under 7% in WV, to my understanding, and you have to produce a physicians note clearing them to compete. We had to produce one for our 106 two years ago, as he was at 6%. As for replacing the fat with muscle I agree totally, but a pound is a pound. Losing 6-10 pounds of fat, and replacing it with 6-10 pounds of muscle is more involved that just hitting the weight room. It is diet, what type of exercise you are doing, rest, etc...... My thought is that off season is for hitting big weight, doing speed, agility, and explosiveness work. The calorie intake should increase to feed the body, so it can repair itself and grow.....this is putting on that muscle everyone wants to talk about. I say about 2-3 months out of season, it is time to shift gears. It is time to focus on muscular endurance and steady state cardio. This tends to shed that excess body fat and take the bulk and give it a more lean appearance and function. You will lose some 1RM power, but you will gain functional muscle. The calorie intake needs to be reduced to a level that creates a calorie deficit. This sheds the body fat. The diet needs to increase in protein and vegetables, and reduce the fat and limit carb intake. This way as the body needs fuel, it will feed on body fat and not muscle. It gives you the best of both worlds.... If you can take a kid with the strength and power of a 132 and have him wrestling at 120 or 126......he stands a better chance. I disagree entirely with the starving, bathroom sauna, trash bag wearing weight cut methods.....it just requires some self discipline, guidance, and education to get the best of both. That's why big time college programs pay so much to their S/C coaches and nutrition people.

To add.....once you hit that goal weigh, carb intake should come back up. The energy is needed for the grind of the season.

aaacoach89 wrote:

aaacoach89 wrote:

Bearhugger wrote:
I agree with you. Lets just say that the average difference between each weight class is 6 pounds. Kids should put it the right kind of work in the off season both on the mat and IN THE WEIGHT ROOM. If the weight room work is consistent and effective, those six pounds should not make any difference if the wrestler doesn't cut. However, losing those 6 pounds could make the wrestler miserable.

I do recognize that certain teams are stacked with talent. That usually leads to one or two wrestlers having to cut miserably to make the varsity line up and help the team.

I understand the point both of you are making. What I am saying is that most wrestlers I see, coach, and deal with are sitting +12-15% body fat. Some are at the 19-20% mark. Some of your lower weight classes or more chiseled (muscular appearing) wrestlers are sitting at 8-10%. Anything under 7% in WV, to my understanding, and you have to produce a physicians note clearing them to compete. We had to produce one for our 106 two years ago, as he was at 6%. As for replacing the fat with muscle I agree totally, but a pound is a pound. Losing 6-10 pounds of fat, and replacing it with 6-10 pounds of muscle is more involved that just hitting the weight room. It is diet, what type of exercise you are doing, rest, etc...... My thought is that off season is for hitting big weight, doing speed, agility, and explosiveness work. The calorie intake should increase to feed the body, so it can repair itself and grow.....this is putting on that muscle everyone wants to talk about. I say about 2-3 months out of season, it is time to shift gears. It is time to focus on muscular endurance and steady state cardio. This tends to shed that excess body fat and take the bulk and give it a more lean appearance and function. You will lose some 1RM power, but you will gain functional muscle. The calorie intake needs to be reduced to a level that creates a calorie deficit. This sheds the body fat. The diet needs to increase in protein and vegetables, and reduce the fat and limit carb intake. This way as the body needs fuel, it will feed on body fat and not muscle. It gives you the best of both worlds.... If you can take a kid with the strength and power of a 132 and have him wrestling at 120 or 126......he stands a better chance. I disagree entirely with the starving, bathroom sauna, trash bag wearing weight cut methods.....it just requires some self discipline, guidance, and education to get the best of both. That's why big time college programs pay so much to their S/C coaches and nutrition people.

To add.....once you hit that goal weigh, carb intake should come back up. The energy is needed for the grind of the season.

To simplify, one could do what Noah Adams did. He lifted weights consistently, even after football and wrestling practice. He ate at China One almost everyday. Weighed 205-207 his senior year and wrestled 220.

Lau is not a good example, he s a double a wrestler

Bearhugger wrote:

aaacoach89 wrote:

aaacoach89 wrote:

I understand the point both of you are making. What I am saying is that most wrestlers I see, coach, and deal with are sitting +12-15% body fat. Some are at the 19-20% mark. Some of your lower weight classes or more chiseled (muscular appearing) wrestlers are sitting at 8-10%. Anything under 7% in WV, to my understanding, and you have to produce a physicians note clearing them to compete. We had to produce one for our 106 two years ago, as he was at 6%. As for replacing the fat with muscle I agree totally, but a pound is a pound. Losing 6-10 pounds of fat, and replacing it with 6-10 pounds of muscle is more involved that just hitting the weight room. It is diet, what type of exercise you are doing, rest, etc...... My thought is that off season is for hitting big weight, doing speed, agility, and explosiveness work. The calorie intake should increase to feed the body, so it can repair itself and grow.....this is putting on that muscle everyone wants to talk about. I say about 2-3 months out of season, it is time to shift gears. It is time to focus on muscular endurance and steady state cardio. This tends to shed that excess body fat and take the bulk and give it a more lean appearance and function. You will lose some 1RM power, but you will gain functional muscle. The calorie intake needs to be reduced to a level that creates a calorie deficit. This sheds the body fat. The diet needs to increase in protein and vegetables, and reduce the fat and limit carb intake. This way as the body needs fuel, it will feed on body fat and not muscle. It gives you the best of both worlds.... If you can take a kid with the strength and power of a 132 and have him wrestling at 120 or 126......he stands a better chance. I disagree entirely with the starving, bathroom sauna, trash bag wearing weight cut methods.....it just requires some self discipline, guidance, and education to get the best of both. That's why big time college programs pay so much to their S/C coaches and nutrition people.

To add.....once you hit that goal weigh, carb intake should come back up. The energy is needed for the grind of the season.

To simplify, one could do what Noah Adams did. He lifted weights consistently, even after football and wrestling practice. He ate at China One almost everyday. Weighed 205-207 his senior year and wrestled 220.

Noah was also the exception and not the rule. The overwhelming %'s of wrestlers are not the caliber of athlete or as gifted as Noah.

aaacoach89 wrote:

Bearhugger wrote:

aaacoach89 wrote:
To add.....once you hit that goal weigh, carb intake should come back up. The energy is needed for the grind of the season.

To simplify, one could do what Noah Adams did. He lifted weights consistently, even after football and wrestling practice. He ate at China One almost everyday. Weighed 205-207 his senior year and wrestled 220.

Noah was also the exception and not the rule. The overwhelming %'s of wrestlers are not the caliber of athlete or as gifted as Noah.

The biggest exception is his hard work in the weight room year round. Rarely, rarely bigly do you find a kid that lifts after football practice as if he didn't have football practice. Rarely is there a kid that goes through wrestling season with the intent of getting stronger as the season progresses.

His biggest natural gift is probably his heart and mind when it comes to top caliber competition. WV has a few more wrestlers like this brewing.

aaacoach89 wrote:I understand the point both of you are making. What I am saying is that most wrestlers I see, coach, and deal with are sitting +12-15% body fat. Some are at the 19-20% mark. Some of your lower weight classes or more chiseled (muscular appearing) wrestlers are sitting at 8-10%. Anything under 7% in WV, to my understanding, and you have to produce a physicians note clearing them to compete. We had to produce one for our 106 two years ago, as he was at 6%. As for replacing the fat with muscle I agree totally, but a pound is a pound. Losing 6-10 pounds of fat, and replacing it with 6-10 pounds of muscle is more involved that just hitting the weight room. It is diet, what type of exercise you are doing, rest, etc...... My thought is that off season is for hitting big weight, doing speed, agility, and explosiveness work. The calorie intake should increase to feed the body, so it can repair itself and grow.....this is putting on that muscle everyone wants to talk about. I say about 2-3 months out of season, it is time to shift gears. It is time to focus on muscular endurance and steady state cardio. This tends to shed that excess body fat and take the bulk and give it a more lean appearance and function. You will lose some 1RM power, but you will gain functional muscle. The calorie intake needs to be reduced to a level that creates a calorie deficit. This sheds the body fat. The diet needs to increase in protein and vegetables, and reduce the fat and limit carb intake. This way as the body needs fuel, it will feed on body fat and not muscle. It gives you the best of both worlds.... If you can take a kid with the strength and power of a 132 and have him wrestling at 120 or 126......he stands a better chance. I disagree entirely with the starving, bathroom sauna, trash bag wearing weight cut methods.....it just requires some self discipline, guidance, and education to get the best of both. That's why big time college programs pay so much to their S/C coaches and nutrition people.

PREACH!
The problem is, most don't know how to work out to build maximum strength and explosiveness.
You've got kids out there being coached to do high rep hypertrophy workouts, thereby adding excessive bulk disproportionate to their overall strength gains.
Boom, sure your kid got a little stronger, but he gained so much weight with your bs hypertrophy workouts that he is now weaker in proportion to his size.