Seeding the High School State Tournament

[admin]

INTERCEPTED MEMO from Coach Archer

Coach (Bill) Archer Senior Asked the Coaches Meeting at the State Tournament Coaches meeting if they would favor seeding the state tournament over the current method. He believes that there were only a handful of votes for seeding. There was no special method stated.

It would probably be somewhere between what is done at OVAC and WSAZ. Coach Archer then mentioned the Hybird Pill a name used in some states to separate the best wrestlers in semi-finals.

The coaches committee is looking into presenting this type of system at the coaches meeting in the spring. The vote was in favor of support for this method.

[Bearhugger]

It is positive to see "areas of needed improvement" being considered and/or implemented instead of being classified as "dead horses".


I wonder if many decades ago somebody mentioned that WV needed other industries besides coal. People probably told the person to shut up and quit beating that dead horse.

[mscoach20]

I feel like your @ button is broken. @mscoach20

You missed the entire point of the dead horse comment, as well. Never said I wasn't open for suggestions...but complaining about the pill after the pill is drawn...for three pages...is beating a dead horse.

@ me next time

[Bearhugger]

I feel like your @ button is broken. @mscoach20

You missed the entire point of the dead horse comment, as well. Never said I wasn't open for suggestions...but complaining about the pill after the pill is drawn...for three pages...is beating a dead horse.

@ me next time

Many on here like the "dead horse" comment. I already forgot about you.

[mscoach4]

So with the hybrid pill the semi finalists would then be seeded regardless of the original bracket? So it would be an attempt to not have one of the "best two wrestlers" eliminated on Friday night from the championship? This might be helpful but would be totally dependent on the regionals being seeded correctly. That is tougher than it might seem in the AA/A regions.

[Bearhugger]

So with the hybrid pill the semi finalists would then be seeded regardless of the original bracket? So it would be an attempt to not have one of the "best two wrestlers" eliminated on Friday night from the championship? This might be helpful but would be totally dependent on the regionals being seeded correctly. That is tougher than it might seem in the AA/A regions.

I do not know how it would be done based on the determined logic of the decision makers. However, if the decision was made to just seed regional champions, then I am ok with that. To expand, if a highly favored wrestler fails to win his region for any reason, then too bad. He won't get seeded at the state tournament.

[mscoach20]

http://www.wvmat.com/temp/19stateseedingiowa.pdf

For those that may have missed it on the front page. Seed 8 based on a computer system and then place other 8 in the draw. Try to separate district (our case region) from first two rounds matching up. At least dodge first round.

That is a pretty good compromise. Takes the worst part of seeding out the equation...opinion. Still wouldn't be perfect, based on lack of head to head from throughout the state...but obviously at this point everyone would agree a seeding process can never be perfect and unbiased.

Weird someone hadn't re-posted this on the forum yet.

[coach_williams]

So with the hybrid pill the semi finalists would then be seeded regardless of the original bracket? So it would be an attempt to not have one of the "best two wrestlers" eliminated on Friday night from the championship? This might be helpful but would be totally dependent on the regionals being seeded correctly. That is tougher than it might seem in the AA/A regions.

Whose opinion will be used to decide who the best two wrestlers are? Call me crazy, but that sounds like an underhanded way to have states rigged to benefit a particular wrestler.

To expand, if a highly favored wrestler fails to win his region for any reason, then too bad.

I think that in reality this is the part that people don't like about the pill. When a good wrestler gets beat at regionals and comes into states as a runner-up and draws a tough path to the finals, people don't like it. That is when they suddenly want seeding criteria to be involved.

[admin]

From the Editor:

Got these observations from Coach Archer:

106-finals 1 vs 5
This top is the ranking from polls possible seeding - this is from AAA
1 beat 2 in semis
113 1 vs 3
2 lost to 1 in semis
120-1 vs 3
region upset
126-1 vs 4
1 beat 2 in semis
132-1 vs 2
138-1 vs 2
145-1 vs 2
152-1 vs 3
2 lost to 3 in semis
160-1 vs 2
170-2 vs 3
1 lost to 2 in semis
182 2 vs 9
1 lost to 2 in semis
195 1 vs 8
2 lost to 1 in semis
220-2 vs 8
2 lost to 1 in semis
285
1 vs 2

Editor's note:
My observations - Not Coach Archer's
It seems that there is a lot of discussion this year in regards to the State Tournament initial bracket assignment. Obviously, everyone would like to see best two in the weight class in the championship final. Which means that they need to start out in opposite sides of the bracket. How to get them there -- by seeding the bracket according to some ranking, or by use of "the pill."

This website has rankings archived back to 2002. Some years, the final rankings specified "Considers State Tournament seedings and possible finish" -- "The Pill" was already figured in to the final rankings. Some years, maybe not so stated, but how can we know what the pollsters were thinking?

I seem to remember that in recent years there have been a few wrestlers who were unheard of for the most part thru the season and crawled out of the woodwork and made quite a splash at the State Tournament. These years the wisdom of "The Pill" was apparent and the pollsters were made to look like fools.

Then you have the situation where someone qualifies for States by taking 4th in their region, but others who have defeated said wrestler earlier in the season are from a different (stronger?) region and fail to qualify (takes 5th). Should this 5th place finisher be allowed to bump out the 4th place finisher? In this case, the utility of Regional Tournaments comes in to question.

So, the question is, do we seed the tournament by "The Pill" or by "Criteria derived by someone." In some years, in some weight classes, criteria are obvious. Some years, not so much.

The question remains.

[Bearhugger]

INTERCEPTED MEMO from Coach Archer

Coach (Bill) Archer Senior Asked the Coaches Meeting at the State Tournament Coaches meeting if they would favor seeding the state tournament over the current method. He believes that there were only a handful of votes for seeding. There was no special method stated.

It would probably be somewhere between what is done at OVAC and WSAZ. Coach Archer then mentioned the Hybird Pill a name used in some states to separate the best wrestlers in semi-finals.

The coaches committee is looking into presenting this type of system at the coaches meeting in the spring. The vote was in favor of support for this method.

3 YEARS HAVE GONE BY. NO ACTION. STALLING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!