Video replay

[Doyablameme?]

Kinda think it’s time

[mscoach4]

It was available tonight, I believe it was decided that it would only be used in score/time keeping reviews.

[Matofficial]

Did someone keep the video replay a secret ? Who decided that it was to used only in timekeeping and scoring? Not sure what video replay you were speaking about but the coaches were not told that. Where were the cameras ?

[Doyablameme?]

It was available tonight, I believe it was decided that it would only be used in score/time keeping reviews.

There was NO video replay in use at all! I sat 3 feet behind the scorers table. Saw no such thing during the qtrs and semis. Replay would have really helped during bout number 171 at 152 lbs.

[mscoach4]

On the AAA mat last night observe the person at the corner in the lime green shirt doing the video. As far as it being available to review I do not know. Did anyone ask?

[Doyablameme?]

On the AAA mat last night observe the person at the corner in the lime green shirt doing the video. As far as it being available to review I do not know. Did anyone ask?

Lol

[KDunbar]

On the AAA mat last night observe the person at the corner in the lime green shirt doing the video. As far as it being available to review I do not know. Did anyone ask?

You have me confused. In your first post you clearly said it was available and now you're saying you do not know. I'm guessing if coaches weren't told it existed then they would not have any reason to ask.
It wasn't my original question or concern, just not clear on what your responses mean.

[J.W.]

You may want to review rule 3-1, article 9 of the NFHS Wrestling Rules that says a referee may NOT use video.

[Matofficial]

JW, you may want to review the rule yourself when applying rules. Under Rule 10-1 Authorization
Article .2 Video recording is authorized unless prohibited by the state high school association.

So according to the NFHS rule we can be allowed to video if the state association allows it. I completely understand the rule book contradicts itself and is not always clear. Some could interpret that as videoing for scouting or reviews. Just think how many instances conflicts could be resolved if it were allowed. The rule itself says videoing is allowed but what for ? It’s like you have an assistant referee but what for ? By the way I do know what they are supposed to be used for but rule interpreting is vague in WV. It becomes more vague when the rule book is not followed and outlaw interpretations are made or just made up rules themselves. Who decides these intricate details. The coaching committee that is appointed and that in itself becomes vague on who is allowed on that committee. Recent rules have been made by someone that were never voted on by the coaches committee. How fair is that?

[Matofficial]

I don’t want to get on too big of a tirade but regarding the rule it seems as though for a lot of it interpretations are under the pick and choose variety, especially a lot of the judgement calls. In the same tournament you may have ( often) the same wrestler commit the same infraction and one is acted upon and the other may not be. Then take that one step further and referee judgment can be extremely different. In my opinion ( mine only) that happens because the officiating is inconsistent because no large rule interpretations are conducted. I know that we (WV) have a rules interpretation meeting before the season begins but it lacks in clear meanings of the rules. They should be conducted on a mat with two wrestlers presenting situations. That could be resolved by appointing a regional referee or area or whatever to give sound advice, hints and tips on how to handle tough calls and how they should be interpreted. Much more helpful than the coaches turning in reports on how the official did in a particular match. Why doesn’t the officials get to rate the coaches? In Ohio they send out memos of problems that may occur or how to interpret a call during the season. It actually is helpful.

[Doyablameme?]

You may want to review rule 3-1, article 9 of the NFHS Wrestling Rules that says a referee may NOT use video.

I am talking about changing the rule to allow referees to utilize video to make decisions! Sheesh

[Matofficial]

Great idea! And I think most got your point.

[a_angeliii]

This is a topic that definitely needs addressed for at least the finals matches, if anything. The wrong person was awarded a state championship because a call was overturned. All you would have needed to do was watch 10 seconds of a match. It was crystal clear the outcome.

[J.W.]

JW, you may want to review the rule yourself when applying rules. Under Rule 10-1 Authorization
Article .2 Video recording is authorized unless prohibited by the state high school association.

So according to the NFHS rule we can be allowed to video if the state association allows it. I completely understand the rule book contradicts itself and is not always clear. Some could interpret that as videoing for scouting or reviews. Just think how many instances conflicts could be resolved if it were allowed. The rule itself says videoing is allowed but what for ? It’s like you have an assistant referee but what for ? By the way I do know what they are supposed to be used for but rule interpreting is vague in WV. It becomes more vague when the rule book is not followed and outlaw interpretations are made or just made up rules themselves. Who decides these intricate details. The coaching committee that is appointed and that in itself becomes vague on who is allowed on that committee. Recent rules have been made by someone were don’t that were never voted on by the coaches committee. How fair is that?

Video recording is not the same as official video review. No contradiction but maybe a misinterpretation by some.

My comment was more toward the one who posted video was available....no it was not. An official can't, won't and not currently authorized to review video. Matches were being recorded but definitely not available for review.

[Jeremy_Callen]

The NFHS has not approved official video review for regular or post season competitions. There has been a requested rule change submitted yearly by different states to adopt official video review but it keeps getting voted down by the NFHS committee members. In addition video review equipment is expensive and I’m sure most schools and or state associations are not willing to incur that expense.

[Matofficial]

Correct! However the WVSSAC does have the power to put video review in place and should. USA wrestling has video review at Fargo. Many out of season tournaments do it without too much trouble. Flo and Trackwrestling videos matches that could be reviewed. As an official myself I would much rather have the opportunity to review a call I made and correct it if wrong than have some kid remember what a poor official I was for missing a call that cost him a championship twenty years later. With respect to NFHS Jeremy can you find anywhere in their rule book that allows a chin cup to cover a goatee? I could name other rules that have been picked and chosen outside of their rules book. However that is not what we’re discussing. Again you are wrong on the cost because it is not expensive depending on what you refer to as expensive. I would be willing to bet the money could be raised from families, coaches and spectators that have or thought they were wronged on calls that could have easily been resolved. How about experimenting with a dual tournament. Let WV lead the country in something other than poverty.

[Matofficial]

Not to beat a dead horse but I would be willing to raise the money for video equipment to experiment with. Others who have felt they were wronged on calls feel free to post on here that you would be willing to help. If I get no response then I will assume people feel they need extra drama in their lives.

[KSRefBP]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe before the WVSSAC could do it, they have to seek permission from NFHS to do it on a trial period (that's if it's not an actual established rule that allows for it to be used).

For what it's worth, I have submitted a rules proposal for several years now to try and implement video review for state championship finals only. Why state championship finals only? You have to consider that if a rule is put in place like this, every school has to have the financial resources to implement it. Costs is the one major reason high school basketball does not have a shot clock. Maybe with the exception of Texas and Massachusetts, who go by NCAA rules (or at least used to).

If a state goes off on their own and does it, I'm not sure what it does to their NFHS membership. Which can become a liability nightmare.

Brian P

[Matofficial]

Brian, where does it say all HS schools would have to use review. I am sure you have officiated many tournaments that are run at HSs with mats too small, not enough space, clocks that are not up to standard etc. I am not sure on the getting NFHS permission thing but rest assured I will call and ask. I do know that the NFHS does not have regional rule interpreters who give permission to wear chin cups to cover goatees, if that helps you out.

[KSRefBP]

If I implied that, it was done in error. Simply comparing it to other sports within WV that has it in the rule book to be used. For instance, in basketball, the wording of the rule allows them to review video, but only in the championship game (it may be the state tournament as a whole, but I'm unsure on that), and it may go as far as saying the final shot. In football, they changed the rule to allow coaches challenge for video review, but only in certain scenarios. Scoring plays and turnovers.

So my intent was that the rule would have to be flexible in saying that it could be used and is not mandatory to use. As opposed to something like a shot clock would be something that you can't just throw in at the state tournament for basketball. I'm rambling. lol.

I'm for video review when possible. I'm not going to comment on any calls that were made or not made over the weekend.

But I do know that the WVSSAC can ask to run review on a trial period and then produce the results. Almost as a study to see how well it worked and whether it should be implemented across the board for all states. And I'm fairly certain I've had conversations where those in the SSAC are in favor of replay.

I think a good start would be having the conversation with the coaches committee, as they could make a recommendation to the SSAC that they'd like to be a trial for it and go from there. But they'd have to be specific as to when it could be used and what for.

[Matofficial]

Very well spoken! And I wholeheartedly agree.

[a_angeliii]

I would be glad to help in funding and finding a solution to all of this. If there is so much weight put on being a State Champion, should we as a community do everything in our power to make sure that it’s being officiated correctly? I know officials make mistakes, it happens. I guarantee you the officials would rather get it right with a review then get it wrong and have to potentially be a part of wronging a child out of their ultimate goal.

These wrestlers have potentially worked damn near all of their lives to become a state champion. Why would we not do everything in our power to make sure we give them a fair shot at it.

[Matofficial]

A_angelli, Thank you for your support. However I am not convinced the hierarchy in officiating is for the review because the ones I have spoken to at the state tournament seem to be extremely hesitant and always use the excuse that our state rules interpreter does. The NFHS doesn’t allow it. That is true but if the they really wanted it the WVSSAC can allow it. Again thank you