AA-A regional alignment

[Diamond]

The reason (I’m not from their region so I’m not being biased) that Point does so good is because the have a team that wants to win at wrestling. All their kids look strong. Our team has one kid that participates out of season, the rest do whatever. A regional realignment to compensate for will to win is silly. The reason a team has a jv that could finish 2nd at states isn’t misalignment, it’s participation. We once had a jv team that would have finished 2nd at AA behind our varsity team but now we have a 5 man jv team because participation changed. That is the problem! Don’t try to figure out how to stop a team from winning multiple titles because of Misalignment. Figure out why a once great team now has only 3 wrestle offs for varsity and the rest get slotted in. ..

I am not sure that your word salad has anything to do with this discussion.

I’m sorry! I thought I made a point. What I have to say doesn’t matter anyway and after this weekend we’re done w HS wrestling. Good luck to your kid LLOYD XMAS (if u are a dad).

[coach_stump]

I have been reading all the discussion about Region 1 being so dominant this season, a region very hard to qualify their wrestlers for the state tournament. As a matter of fact, out of the top 8 ranked wrestlers from the latest poll, Region 1 has 40 ranked. The nearest region for top 8 ranked wrestlers is Region 2, followed closely by Region 4, where Point Pleasant shares the load. Point is the dominate team in AA-A for sure and will take a major upset in several weight classes to deter their quest to be the state team champion. But, this has not always been the case. History tell us that the days when Oak Glen ruled the roost in AA-A, other regions were just as mighty as their region (Oak Glen almost always qualified their entire team). I do remember well how tough it was to qualify wrestlers to take to the states to compete with Oak Glen, believe me, it was tough to do. My point is this, region strength changes from time to time, maybe Region 1 this year, maybe Region 2 next.

[Diamond]

The reason (I’m not from their region so I’m not being biased) that Point does so good is because the have a team that wants to win at wrestling. All their kids look strong. Our team has one kid that participates out of season, the rest do whatever. A regional realignment to compensate for will to win is silly. The reason a team has a jv that could finish 2nd at states isn’t misalignment, it’s participation. We once had a jv team that would have finished 2nd at AA behind our varsity team but now we have a 5 man jv team because participation changed. That is the problem! Don’t try to figure out how to stop a team from winning multiple titles because of Misalignment. Figure out why a once great team now has only 3 wrestle offs for varsity and the rest get slotted in. ..

I am not sure that your word salad has anything to do with this discussion.

Sorry Lloyd, sorry you don’t understand what I’m saying. 1 team that works hard will always qualify all their wrestlers in any regional configuration. It’s the program!

[Lloyd Christmas]

I have been reading all the discussion about Region 1 being so dominant this season, a region very hard to qualify their wrestlers for the state tournament. As a matter of fact, out of the top 8 ranked wrestlers from the latest poll, Region 1 has 40 ranked. The nearest region for top 8 ranked wrestlers is Region 2, followed closely by Region 4, where Point Pleasant shares the load. Point is the dominate team in AA-A for sure and will take a major upset in several weight classes to deter their quest to be the state team champion. But, this has not always been the case. History tell us that the days when Oak Glen ruled the roost in AA-A, other regions were just as mighty as their region (Oak Glen almost always qualified their entire team). I do remember well how tough it was to qualify wrestlers to take to the states to compete with Oak Glen, believe me, it was tough to do. My point is this, region strength changes from time to time, maybe Region 1 this year, maybe Region 2 next.

It is definitely not going to be region 2 next year. Nor will it be 3 or 4. The Marion County team plus the likes of Oak Glen is always the dominate region. If you cant see that based on all the years since Marion County dropped to AA then you will never understand.

[Lloyd Christmas]

The reason (I’m not from their region so I’m not being biased) that Point does so good is because the have a team that wants to win at wrestling. All their kids look strong. Our team has one kid that participates out of season, the rest do whatever. A regional realignment to compensate for will to win is silly. The reason a team has a jv that could finish 2nd at states isn’t misalignment, it’s participation. We once had a jv team that would have finished 2nd at AA behind our varsity team but now we have a 5 man jv team because participation changed. That is the problem! Don’t try to figure out how to stop a team from winning multiple titles because of Misalignment. Figure out why a once great team now has only 3 wrestle offs for varsity and the rest get slotted in. ..

I am not sure that your word salad has anything to do with this discussion.

Sorry Lloyd, sorry you don’t understand what I’m saying. 1 team that works hard will always qualify all their wrestlers in any regional configuration. It’s the program!

I understand exactly what you are saying. You are trying to say that region 1 teams dont work hard enough to have successful programs. You have not looked at the fact that regions 2-4 are weaker regions and it is easier to qualify wrestlers.

[aacoach32]

With the way that basketball programs are realigned, the wrestling tournament is split between the AAA-AA-A class and the AAAA class.

[KDunbar]

I was but I wasn't being sarcastic. Considering I had four other wrestlers on my team who did not qualify for States out of Region 1 AA, but they crushed wrestlers in other regions in both AA and AAA who made it to states, there's no doubt the road to Huntington is much tougher for Region 1 AA. Changes are being discussed and proposed, but in the end nothing will really change. We might as well just scrap the who multi-classification idea and just go to one class.

I'm not sure I understand how just having districts in the very same geographic area and then also adding in AAA wrestlers helps out those 4 wrestlers (and not actually hurt them) getting to the state tournament. There has always been a sort of geographic disparity in terms of the "quantity of quality" wrestlers. I guess it is fortunate that this has not at least adversely affected the top 3 or 4 wrestlers in the state from getting to the tournament and it has not had a significant affect on the overall team title. This was the concern of the poster who initiated this thread.

I dont think the original poster said anything about team titles. I think his point was about individual wrestlers and weight classes. There were several ranked wrestlers that finished 5th or even 6th in region a/aa. You have to admit that region 1 is way tougher than 2, 3, and 4.

Nope, I read it again. Definitely about teams from Region 1 AA/A being at a disadvantage from a team standpoint by having a 5th or a 6th place finisher that is better than wrestlers from other regions who are going to the state tournament and thus Region 1 teams being at a disadvantage by sending smaller numbers. Not saying the other issue isn't true, just not the conversation started here.

[Lloyd Christmas]

I'm not sure I understand how just having districts in the very same geographic area and then also adding in AAA wrestlers helps out those 4 wrestlers (and not actually hurt them) getting to the state tournament. There has always been a sort of geographic disparity in terms of the "quantity of quality" wrestlers. I guess it is fortunate that this has not at least adversely affected the top 3 or 4 wrestlers in the state from getting to the tournament and it has not had a significant affect on the overall team title. This was the concern of the poster who initiated this thread.

I dont think the original poster said anything about team titles. I think his point was about individual wrestlers and weight classes. There were several ranked wrestlers that finished 5th or even 6th in region a/aa. You have to admit that region 1 is way tougher than 2, 3, and 4.

Nope, I read it again. Definitely about teams from Region 1 AA/A being at a disadvantage from a team standpoint by having a 5th or a 6th place finisher that is better than wrestlers from other regions who are going to the state tournament and thus Region 1 teams being at a disadvantage by sending smaller numbers. Not saying the other issue isn't true, just not the conversation started here.

So you do admit that region 1 wrestlers are at a disadvantage when compared to region 2,3, and 4.

[KDunbar]

I dont think the original poster said anything about team titles. I think his point was about individual wrestlers and weight classes. There were several ranked wrestlers that finished 5th or even 6th in region a/aa. You have to admit that region 1 is way tougher than 2, 3, and 4.

Nope, I read it again. Definitely about teams from Region 1 AA/A being at a disadvantage from a team standpoint by having a 5th or a 6th place finisher that is better than wrestlers from other regions who are going to the state tournament and thus Region 1 teams being at a disadvantage by sending smaller numbers. Not saying the other issue isn't true, just not the conversation started here.

So you do admit that region 1 wrestlers are at a disadvantage when compared to region 2,3, and 4.

No, I don't think one can make a blanket statement like that. Year to year it would depend on the weight class. I don't think any wrestlers from Region 1 AA/A are at a "disadvantage". They generally are some of the best wrestlers, from some of historically the best schools, with some of the best coaches. I'd say that those wrestlers have an "advantage". I would say the following: I suppose if one is giving out six placements at the State Tournament, then the only way to be absolutely sure that the sixth best wrestler isn't left out and sitting at home is to take 6 wrestlers from each region. Do I personally think that happens often enough to make that a necessary change? No. Again, do I think the lack of those few wrestlers from a team has an effect on the overall team title? No. Am I sympathetic to the situation to the occasional wrestler that this might happen too? Yes, but I don't know that it warrants a massive overhaul of the entire system. Do I think my opinion is that meaningful? No.

[mscoach20]

I have been reading all the discussion about Region 1 being so dominant this season, a region very hard to qualify their wrestlers for the state tournament. As a matter of fact, out of the top 8 ranked wrestlers from the latest poll, Region 1 has 40 ranked. The nearest region for top 8 ranked wrestlers is Region 2, followed closely by Region 4, where Point Pleasant shares the load. Point is the dominate team in AA-A for sure and will take a major upset in several weight classes to deter their quest to be the state team champion. But, this has not always been the case. History tell us that the days when Oak Glen ruled the roost in AA-A, other regions were just as mighty as their region (Oak Glen almost always qualified their entire team). I do remember well how tough it was to qualify wrestlers to take to the states to compete with Oak Glen, believe me, it was tough to do. My point is this, region strength changes from time to time, maybe Region 1 this year, maybe Region 2 next.

Facts. I can remember years that region 4 left a kid at home that had beaten all other regional champs. Those years the 1-4 in the region also finished 1-4 in the state (sometimes in a different order). It definitely cycles, and not that long ago region 4 was sending the team champ and runner-up to Huntington.

[Bearhugger]

If Point Pleasant would have been in Region 1 this season, we would have seen PP qualify maybe 0 to 2 less wrestlers for the state tournament. Lets split it down the middle and say 1 less STQ. This means the current region 1 teams would qualify 13 less wrestlers.

To expand further, it is possible that PP could have 8 to 10 state finalists. Key word possible. I do not see any teams in region 1 that could have more than 2 to 3 state finalists.

[KDunbar]

If Point Pleasant would have been in Region 1 this season, we would have seen PP qualify maybe 0 to 2 less wrestlers for the state tournament. Lets split it down the middle and say 1 less STQ. This means the current region 1 teams would qualify 13 less wrestlers.

To expand further, it is possible that PP could have 8 to 10 state finalists. Key word possible. I do not see any teams in region 1 that could have more than 2 to 3 state finalists.

So, what have we learned. Yes, it probably was harder to qualify as a wrestler this year in several weight classes from Region 1 AA/A compared to other regions. This tends to somewhat rotate between the regions from year to year. This has been the case in Region 1 and now Region 4 in AAA forever. Despite this "occasional inequality", it has never affected the team race. No doubt that on occasion the 5th or 6th best wrestler stays home. As someone else pointed out, often one of the best wrestlers in the state is at home on the JV team (don't let Bearhugger read this or else he'll admonish us for allowing that to happen). Should the regions be realigned to correct this? Not in my opinion, as it would be an endless job and be based on a lot of human subjectivity. Finally, let's see if Point Pleasant's final team score is actually more than double the next closest school. If so, then the concept that they could evenly divide their team in half and still win and finish in second (thus taking half as many wrestlers to the state and still come out the winner) would reassure everyone that the regional "inequality" is not playing a role on any team in Region 1 being able to be competitive in the overall team race.

[Bearhugger]

If Point Pleasant would have been in Region 1 this season, we would have seen PP qualify maybe 0 to 2 less wrestlers for the state tournament. Lets split it down the middle and say 1 less STQ. This means the current region 1 teams would qualify 13 less wrestlers.

To expand further, it is possible that PP could have 8 to 10 state finalists. Key word possible. I do not see any teams in region 1 that could have more than 2 to 3 state finalists.

So, what have we learned. Yes, it probably was harder to qualify as a wrestler this year in several weight classes from Region 1 AA/A compared to other regions. This tends to somewhat rotate between the regions from year to year. This has been the case in Region 1 and now Region 4 in AAA forever. Despite this "occasional inequality", it has never affected the team race. No doubt that on occasion the 5th or 6th best wrestler stays home. As someone else pointed out, often one of the best wrestlers in the state is at home on the JV team (don't let Bearhugger read this or else he'll admonish us for allowing that to happen). Should the regions be realigned to correct this? Not in my opinion, as it would be an endless job and be based on a lot of human subjectivity. Finally, let's see if Point Pleasant's final team score is actually more than double the next closest school. If so, then the concept that they could evenly divide their team in half and still win and finish in second (thus taking half as many wrestlers to the state and still come out the winner) would reassure everyone that the regional "inequality" is not playing a role on any team in Region 1 being able to be competitive in the overall team race.

1. Oak Glen won AA/A region 1 over Fairmont Senior. Oak Glen also beat Fairmont Senior in the Cameron Tournament.

2. Oak Glen walked in with 14 wrestlers, only 5 were ranked in the top 10 on the February 5 Coaches' individual rankings. They qualified 8 wrestlers.

3. Fairmont Senior walked in with 13 wrestlers but 8 were ranked in the top 10. They qualified 8 wrestlers. One of their ranked wrestlers did not qualify.

4. Region 1 has 47 ranked wrestlers or 33.81%. Region 2 has 36 or 25.90%. Region 3 has 25 or 17.99%. Region 4 has 31 or 22.30%

5. Region 1 is without a doubt the toughest region for the average wrestler to qualify for the state tournament. Seven weight classes contained FOUR ranked wrestlers. One of which was 106 that had 5 ranked wrestlers.

Now lets look at all of this from a different perspective. First, I know the difference between dual competition and tournament competition. However, if Team A beats Team B 59 to 9, then Team B is NOT going to beat Team A in a tournament.

Oak Glen walked into region 1 with their full team. They won the tournament. Oak Glen took on Point Pleasant in a dual and lost 59 to 9. Thus, I do not see Oak Glen challenging for a state team title with all 14 of their wrestlers. They will be contending for second with their 8 STQs and second is what everybody is fighting for.

Oak Glen is a good team that has many members that have improved from season to season. Taking all 14 of their wrestlers plus 3 more isn't going to be enough. Same for FSHS. A dramatically improved team that is poised for a better season next season. Taking all 14 plus 3 more is not enough.

[Diamond]

Hence, no one team will beat Point but collectively the rest will work to put as many sad faces in their champion picture as possible. Sounds like that is the only thing the others can do. Run what you brung and take what you can get. This is not a Point hater post. They are a great team but we’re all there for the same thing. Good luck to all!!!

[KDunbar]

If Point Pleasant would have been in Region 1 this season, we would have seen PP qualify maybe 0 to 2 less wrestlers for the state tournament. Lets split it down the middle and say 1 less STQ. This means the current region 1 teams would qualify 13 less wrestlers.

To expand further, it is possible that PP could have 8 to 10 state finalists. Key word possible. I do not see any teams in region 1 that could have more than 2 to 3 state finalists.

So, what have we learned. Finally, let's see if Point Pleasant's final team score is actually more than double the next closest school. If so, then the concept that they could evenly divide their team in half and still win and finish in second (thus taking half as many wrestlers to the state and still come out the winner) would reassure everyone that the regional "inequality" is not playing a role on any team in Region 1 being able to be competitive in the overall team race.

I know it's not over yet, but maybe I was way off? Perhaps they could divide their team into thirds?

[Diamond]

If Point Pleasant would have been in Region 1 this season, we would have seen PP qualify maybe 0 to 2 less wrestlers for the state tournament. Lets split it down the middle and say 1 less STQ. This means the current region 1 teams would qualify 13 less wrestlers.

To expand further, it is possible that PP could have 8 to 10 state finalists. Key word possible. I do not see any teams in region 1 that could have more than 2 to 3 state finalists.

So, what have we learned. Finally, let's see if Point Pleasant's final team score is actually more than double the next closest school. If so, then the concept that they could evenly divide their team in half and still win and finish in second (thus taking half as many wrestlers to the state and still come out the winner) would reassure everyone that the regional "inequality" is not playing a role on any team in Region 1 being able to be competitive in the overall team race.

I know it's not over yet, but maybe I was way off? Perhaps they could divide their team into thirds?

KDunbar and Bearhugger are right about Point. My solution is obvious. Don’t re arrange teams to even the field...work harder!!! Point done outworked the field overall. With exceptions. Some lesser teams harbor the absolute best wrestlers , just not enough teamwork. Teamwork is key! Great a Job Point Pleasant! Congratulations!!!