Seeding for high school states

[abettnman]

The regional champs need to be seeded for the high school states. Having a final match up in the semi’s is ridiculous. Takes away from the finals. I am not saying seed everyone, it at least seed the Regional Champs.

[Jchap8750]

I agree some of the best matches happened on Friday night. We don’t have that many wrestlers. Everyone knows who everyone is. Seed the top 4 from the regions and toss everyone else in the bracket. Seems like this topic comes up every year but yet kids who deserve to be in the finals end up taking 3rd. How many more seasons are we going to let this go on?

[aaacoach90]

I totally agree. The way this is now does not work. Yes the cream will rise but kids are not getting the fair shake they deserve and they know it. I heard so many kids talking about this states being wrong but yet we wonder why the number are down. If so many can see something need done I can't understand why change is so hard.

[Jchap8750]

Is it the WVSSAC that actually makes the call on the pill? If so who there? I’m sure someone has contacted them before so what was the reasoning for not wanting to change it?

[mike.carman]

Is it the WVSSAC that actually makes the call on the pill? If so who there? I’m sure someone has contacted them before so what was the reasoning for not wanting to change it?

It’s actually the coaches decision. They are opposed to seeding but are willing to use a hybrid pill. I think you may see some changes moving forward.

[Rainman1990]

Any coach that agrees with the pill is a moron in my opinion. Congratulations to all state finalist, but this years tournament had some of the most watered down matches I’ve ever seen. The pill creates a golden opportunity for wrestler who hasn’t earned a finals match appearance and for lack of a better term, screws the guy that belongs there. Hopefully the pill will be eventually faded out.

[wrestlingfan23202]

Seeding is a terrible idea

[Rainman1990]

Please elaborate how seedlings is a terrible idea? Puts the best kids who have performed all year in the spots they’ve earned. You must know a kid who isn’t very good that may get lucky with a decent pill. They seed the nationals tournament l? Explain pleaE.

[Jchap8750]

Seeding is a terrible idea

Even seeding just the top 4 from each region?

[wrestlingfan23202]

Please elaborate how seedlings is a terrible idea? Puts the best kids who have performed all year in the spots they’ve earned. You must know a kid who isn’t very good that may get lucky with a decent pill. They seed the nationals tournament l? Explain pleaE.

I’m just a fan man I have NO dog in the fight but seeding every wrestler would be ignorant to be the best you have to beat the best! You guys want seeding because you don’t like what you THINK would be a “finals” match in the semis. Regardless if we have the pill or seeding they will face each other rather it’s in the semis or the finals. Doesn’t matter it will settle its self out. Instead of speaking of seeding which you do know will never happen! We should be talking about inconsistencies when officiating all year they don’t call stalling and then at states it’s time to start being picky. There are much more issues to speak about than taking an easy way out by seeding kids. Well most Coaches are opposed to it trust me every coach will fight for their kid and a 1 seed when they don’t deserve the one seed or whatever the case just leave it as it is it’s honestly the fairest way to do things

[SMC]

Please elaborate how seedlings is a terrible idea? Puts the best kids who have performed all year in the spots they’ve earned. You must know a kid who isn’t very good that may get lucky with a decent pill. They seed the nationals tournament l? Explain pleaE.

I’m just a fan man I have NO dog in the fight but seeding every wrestler would be ignorant to be the best you have to beat the best! You guys want seeding because you don’t like what you THINK would be a “finals” match in the semis. Regardless if we have the pill or seeding they will face each other rather it’s in the semis or the finals. Doesn’t matter it will settle its self out. Instead of speaking of seeding which you do know will never happen! We should be talking about inconsistencies when officiating all year they don’t call stalling and then at states it’s time to start being picky. There are much more issues to speak about than taking an easy way out by seeding kids. Well most Coaches are opposed to it trust me every coach will fight for their kid and a 1 seed when they don’t deserve the one seed or whatever the case just leave it as it is it’s honestly the fairest way to do things

Seeding is the easy way out? I would argue that the opposite is true. Just use a pill so there is no thought process whatsoever. I wouldn't advocate for seeding everybody, but seeding the regional champions wouldn't be that difficult.

[mscoach20]

Please elaborate how seedlings is a terrible idea? Puts the best kids who have performed all year in the spots they’ve earned. You must know a kid who isn’t very good that may get lucky with a decent pill. They seed the nationals tournament l? Explain pleaE.

I’m just a fan man I have NO dog in the fight but seeding every wrestler would be ignorant to be the best you have to beat the best! You guys want seeding because you don’t like what you THINK would be a “finals” match in the semis. Regardless if we have the pill or seeding they will face each other rather it’s in the semis or the finals. Doesn’t matter it will settle its self out. Instead of speaking of seeding which you do know will never happen! We should be talking about inconsistencies when officiating all year they don’t call stalling and then at states it’s time to start being picky. There are much more issues to speak about than taking an easy way out by seeding kids. Well most Coaches are opposed to it trust me every coach will fight for their kid and a 1 seed when they don’t deserve the one seed or whatever the case just leave it as it is it’s honestly the fairest way to do things

Seeding is the easy way out? I would argue that the opposite is true. Just use a pill so there is no thought process whatsoever. I wouldn't advocate for seeding everybody, but seeding the regional champions wouldn't be that difficult.

We had a wrestler beat 3 regional champs one year. He didn’t make it out of region. So, given the 5th best in a region is 5th best in state, how would you have seeded those four champs?

[wrestlingfan23202]

I’m just a fan man I have NO dog in the fight but seeding every wrestler would be ignorant to be the best you have to beat the best! You guys want seeding because you don’t like what you THINK would be a “finals” match in the semis. Regardless if we have the pill or seeding they will face each other rather it’s in the semis or the finals. Doesn’t matter it will settle its self out. Instead of speaking of seeding which you do know will never happen! We should be talking about inconsistencies when officiating all year they don’t call stalling and then at states it’s time to start being picky. There are much more issues to speak about than taking an easy way out by seeding kids. Well most Coaches are opposed to it trust me every coach will fight for their kid and a 1 seed when they don’t deserve the one seed or whatever the case just leave it as it is it’s honestly the fairest way to do things

Seeding is the easy way out? I would argue that the opposite is true. Just use a pill so there is no thought process whatsoever. I wouldn't advocate for seeding everybody, but seeding the regional champions wouldn't be that difficult.

We had a wrestler beat 3 regional champs one year. He didn’t make it out of region. So, given the 5th best in a region is 5th best in state, how would you have seeded those four champs?

See that’s my point that’s why we have the pill it’s honestly the best way to do it. We want to seed it and make it an easier road for who people “think” are the best

[Jchap8750]

We could add another session charge another $8 and do true 2nds LOL

[KDunbar]

I totally agree. The way this is now does not work. Yes the cream will rise but kids are not getting the fair shake they deserve and they know it. I heard so many kids talking about this states being wrong but yet we wonder why the number are down. If so many can see something need done I can't understand why change is so hard.

At least this topic has solved the problem as to why the numbers are down in wrestling. All these kids not coming out because they know there is a chance when they get to the state tournament that if they're the 2nd best wrestler in the state they might have to meet the best wrestler in the semis. Problem solved.

[KDunbar]

The regional champs need to be seeded for the high school states. Having a final match up in the semi’s is ridiculous. Takes away from the finals. I am not saying seed everyone, it at least seed the Regional Champs.

I agree some of the best matches happened on Friday night. We don’t have that many wrestlers. Everyone knows who everyone is. Seed the top 4 from the regions and toss everyone else in the bracket. Seems like this topic comes up every year but yet kids who deserve to be in the finals end up taking 3rd. How many more seasons are we going to let this go on?

So we seed the regional champs, who most likely are not the top four in the state, and then just toss the rest of the scrubs into brackets. Sounds simple enough, except when the top 3 are all from the same region and could get all thrown in the same bracket. At least then we wouldn't have finals in the semis, they could actually be in the quarter finals or heck, better yet, in the opening round.

[2sexy]

i think you use common sense the coaches throughout the state have a pretty good idea which kids are the ones to beat. that's why kids move up in down throughout the season trying to avoid the best kids. Once you coaches Narrow it down to eight or so wrestlers than use the same seeding criteria that we use for the regional tournament. The kids have all season to show they should be considered for one of those spots. lets try and fix the problem. It will make for better matches in the Finals. Just an opinion!

[aaacoach90]

After much thought I'm all about the hybrid pill/ seeding regional champs only. This sounds like the best of both. Lessons the chance of have the championship in the semi finals.

[J.W.]

Hybrid System being discussed to seed regional champions and still separating much like the pill does, still keeps Regional champions and runner-ups on opposite side of brackets. Still maintains Regional 2nd and 3rds are on same side of bracket. Still puts champs and 4th on same side of bracket and still keeps one from each region in a quadrant of the bracket. Here are examples to help understand what is being discussed.

If committee seeds regional champions in order Region 1, Region 2, Region 3, Region 4; first round pairings are:

Region 1 Champion
Region 4 4th Place
Region 2 3rd Place
Region 3 2nd Place

Region 2 2nd Place
Region 3 3rd Place
Region 1 4th Place
Region 4 Champion

Region 3 Champion
Region 2 4th Place
Region 4 3rd Place
Region 1 2nd Place

Region 4 2nd Place
Region 1 3rd Place
Region 3 4th Place
Region 2 Champion


If committee seeds regional champions in order Region 2, Region 3, Region 4, Region 1; first round pairings are:

Region 2 Champion
Region 1 4th Place
Region 3 3rd Place
Region 4 2nd Place

Region 3 2nd Place
Region 4 3rd Place
Region 2 4th Place
Region 1 Champion

Region 4 Champion
Region 3 4th Place
Region 1 3rd Place
Region 2 2nd Place

Region 1 2nd Place
Region 2 3rd Place
Region 4 4th Place
Region 3 Champion


If committee seeds regional champions in order Region 3, Region 4, Region 1, Region 2; first round pairings are:

Region 3 Champion
Region 2 4th Place
Region 4 3rd Place
Region 1 2nd Place

Region 4 2nd Place
Region 1 3rd Place
Region 3 4th Place
Region 2 Champion

Region 1 Champion
Region 4 4th Place
Region 2 3rd Place
Region 3 2nd Place

Region 2 2nd Place
Region 3 3rd Place
Region 1 4th Place
Region 4 Champion

[KDunbar]

So a better way of saying this is: To seed regional champs only if it is determined that the original pill picked, which has determined the bracket set up for that particular weight class has, in the opinion of whoever is given the power to make that determination, placed the top 2 wrestlers on the same half of the bracket. If that is the case then that weight class will be seeded based on the ranking/determined seeding of the regional champions and the entire portion of the bracket for the regional winners will be move in total. It then comes down to 1)who will be making that decision & 2) is it a better method to arrange the brackets with seeds #1 & #4 on one side and #2 & #3 on the other, or use a second pill choice between 2 possible pills (hybrid pills) to determine randomly whether #1 is paired with# 4 or #1 is paired with #3, since we are moving entire brackets which are not even rather than merely moving one wrestler.
An unlikely, but possible scenario to be considered is what to do if for some reason the 1st or 2nd ranked wrestler at their regionals do not win and are placed as a runner-up on the same side of the brackets with the other 1st or 2nd ranked wrestler. For example, Braxton Amos accidentally slams his opponent as he is ahead in the match 14-0 and loses. The original pill chosen and even the ranking of regional champs place him and the obvious #2 wrestler (who is A. J. Ferrari who has moved [again] in state to challenge him) on the same side of the brackets. Point is, do the powers that be have the right to move brackets as they see fit to separate their #1 & #2 picks?

[J.W.]

I would think the pill would be gone and this would replace that system altogether. But I am just speculating, but that is how I would see it going.

[J.W.]

I would think the pill would be gone and this would replace that system altogether. But I am just speculating, but that is how I would see it going.