Regional Realignment

[Jbee]

Where these Ind. rankings not started by a poster on WVMat....if I remember correctly he quit posting and Yosemaite Sam took them over and done his all class rankings and the coaches took the rankings in their class. someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Doc didn't you get the coaches to do these ind. polls along with the team polls which they where already doing.

They where for entertainment purposes and discussion only which is what they are "entertainment" and now they are Gold Standard by some......are you serious!...........

with that being said 10 of 29 coaches voted on these in AAA and 25 of 54 in AA/A...even liberal pollsters wouldn't take that sample size!


greencrush, you are providing facts on this subject...get ready for the beat down from the "wrestling forum gods"

[Sally]

Actually, we should do away with a state tournament all together, and just award medals to the ranked wrestlers.

Nobody insinuated we should do away with the state tournament. Rankings are simply accurate measurements of previous results. My thoughts/hopes are that Varsity and JV wrestlers would see more importance in every match during the regular season. The more you win against quality opponents, the higher your rank, the better your chances to secure a spot at the state tournament. The wrestlers would still be able to settle the final placements by wrestling. We are balancing stronger weight classes or regions by rewarding bids for 5th or 6th place.

[RWWS]

There have been JV wrestlers beating varsity kids for years. The regions have been lopsided for years so now we want to make an issue of it. Can anyone show me any other state results where they allow JV to participate. I would've surprised if there are any that allow it.

[greencrush]

Actually, we should do away with a state tournament all together, and just award medals to the ranked wrestlers.

Nobody insinuated we should do away with the state tournament. Rankings are simply accurate measurements of previous results.

Yeah, that was sarcasm. Clearly implied by the stark contrast between that statement, and my already well documented stance on the issue.
I just demonstrated how rankings are not always accurate.
They are for the entertainment of fans. The kids prefer to sort it out on the mat.

[J.W.]

The change has already happened.

Parkersburg and Parkersburg South have been pulled OUT of region 1 and placed over in region 4 WITH Huntington. North Marion is now ranked in the top ten in AA/A.

I am sure that Parkersburg and Parkersburg South won over 95% of those titles that region 1 won in 38 years. Add all of these titles with Huntington's two. The only justification I can see is it looks good on a map.

This may blow your mind but if any of you think regional alignments considered wrestling at all, you have lost your minds and clueless to the big machine. Basketball fellows. Morgantown, Wheeling Park, and Parkersburg teams are always top 4 teams in the state. Only two of them get to go to playoffs. New regional alignment now let's the Parkersburg teams have a better chance of basketball playoffs, also the location of WVSSAC office.

Football is not effected because top 16 teams state wide are in, no regional issue.

Stop fooling yourselves thinking our beloved but low income producing sport was even considered.

Maybe a conspiracy theory, but holds alot of weight considering basketball has argued this fact for years and have a louder voice at the table.

[admin]

Where these Ind. rankings not started by a poster on WVMat....if I remember correctly he quit posting and Yosemaite Sam took them over and done his all class rankings and the coaches took the rankings in their class. someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Doc didn't you get the coaches to do these ind. polls along with the team polls which they where already doing.

I commented on this a few weeks ago, but the history of the "polls" is...

The team and individual polls were being compiled long before WV-Mat cam in to existence 20 yrs ago. Prior to WV Mat, Roy Michael of North Marion and Horace Blankenship of Berkeley Springs "bird-dogged" the polls, which were released to the newspapers.

At the beginning, WV Mat just published their work.

Then Coaches Michael and Blankenship retired, and the polls got a bit spotty for a couple of years. WV Mat did its own polls to fill the void.

In 2003-04 WV Mat and the coaches got on the same page and started collaborating on the "WV Mat/Coaches Polls."

[Jbee]

Where these Ind. rankings not started by a poster on WVMat....if I remember correctly he quit posting and Yosemaite Sam took them over and done his all class rankings and the coaches took the rankings in their class. someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Doc didn't you get the coaches to do these ind. polls along with the team polls which they where already doing.

I commented on this a few weeks ago, but the history of the "polls" is...

The team and individual polls were being compiled long before WV-Mat cam in to existence 20 yrs ago. Prior to WV Mat, Roy Michael of North Marion and Horace Blankenship of Berkeley Springs "bird-dogged" the polls, which were released to the newspapers.

At the beginning, WV Mat just published their work.

Then Coaches Michael and Blankenship retired, and the polls got a bit spotty for a couple of years. WV Mat did its own polls to fill the void.

In 2003-04 WV Mat and the coaches got on the same page and started collaborating on the "WV Mat/Coaches Polls."

Thanks for the clarification

[mike.carman]

The change has already happened.

Parkersburg and Parkersburg South have been pulled OUT of region 1 and placed over in region 4 WITH Huntington. North Marion is now ranked in the top ten in AA/A.

I am sure that Parkersburg and Parkersburg South won over 95% of those titles that region 1 won in 38 years. Add all of these titles with Huntington's two. The only justification I can see is it looks good on a map.

This may blow your mind but if any of you think regional alignments considered wrestling at all, you have lost your minds and clueless to the big machine. Basketball fellows. Morgantown, Wheeling Park, and Parkersburg teams are always top 4 teams in the state. Only two of them get to go to playoffs. New regional alignment now let's the Parkersburg teams have a better chance of basketball playoffs, also the location of WVSSAC office.

Football is not effected because top 16 teams state wide are in, no regional issue.

Stop fooling yourselves thinking our beloved but low income producing sport was even considered.

Maybe a conspiracy theory, but holds alot of weight considering basketball has argued this fact for years and have a louder voice at the table.

True dat

[dontlikethelights]

If they were changing the regions for basketball I don't know why they'd want to set themselves up to play Huntington in the first round of the playoffs. 5 titles in 6 championship appearances since 2005.

[Frank]

The change has already happened.

Parkersburg and Parkersburg South have been pulled OUT of region 1 and placed over in region 4 WITH Huntington. North Marion is now ranked in the top ten in AA/A.

I am sure that Parkersburg and Parkersburg South won over 95% of those titles that region 1 won in 38 years. Add all of these titles with Huntington's two. The only justification I can see is it looks good on a map.

This may blow your mind but if any of you think regional alignments considered wrestling at all, you have lost your minds and clueless to the big machine. Basketball fellows. Morgantown, Wheeling Park, and Parkersburg teams are always top 4 teams in the state. Only two of them get to go to playoffs. New regional alignment now let's the Parkersburg teams have a better chance of basketball playoffs, also the location of WVSSAC office.

Football is not effected because top 16 teams state wide are in, no regional issue.

Stop fooling yourselves thinking our beloved but low income producing sport was even considered.

Maybe a conspiracy theory, but holds alot of weight considering basketball has argued this fact for years and have a louder voice at the table.

BOOM
A knowledge bomb has been dropped!!!

[J.W.]

If they were changing the regions for basketball I don't know why they'd want to set themselves up to play Huntington in the first round of the playoffs. 5 titles in 6 championship appearances since 2005.

They wouldn't, top 2 from each region are opposite sides of bracket at state playoffs. So in all actuality, now they have a better chance of making playoffs and being on the opposite side of the bracket.

Again, I myself, did not come up with this information. It was shared with me by someone who is pretty well in tune with the WV High School Sports Politics and really made me think about it and do a little, very little research. I'm not tied to it, just sharing the information that made my eyes open a little.

2011 - WP and Morgantown make playoffs. South and Parkersburg were ranked in the top 8 and stayed home.
2012 - WP and Parkersburg make playoffs. Morgantown and South were highly ranked and stayed home.
2013 - Morgantown and South make playoffs. The other two teams were highly ranked and no chance in playoffs.
2014 - Same as 2013
2015 - South and Parkersburg make the playoffs. Morgantown was highly ranked and stayed home.
2016 - Morgantown and South make the playoffs. The other two teams were top 8 and stayed home.

Different sport, same gripes, but the new alignments did help with this issue in basketball.

Side notes - they are not asking for an all class tourney, nor have they ever had JV teams get to compete in varsity tournaments, their words - not mine. We should be fortunate that they do allow our JV teams to compete in varsity tournaments during the season.

[Sally]

Add to the conspiracy theory, Dolan is a former teacher and assistant superintendent at Wheeling Park.

I tend to agree with J.W. and say the revenue sports dictate the decisions from the top. Also, if we use a points system for wins (like football) the better wrestlers are going to end up at the state tournament no matter what region of the state they live.

[dontlikethelights]

Excuse my lack of knowledge on WV basketball, they don't have a site like this one to make it easy to understand the pairings. I just remember South Charleston and GW's girls playing each other in the first round last year and thought they just took the sectional champs to play each other in the first round. It appears that the change would benefit Wheeling Park, University and Morgantown the most. The Parkersburg schools have The likes of Huntington, Hurricane, Midland, Spring Valley and Ripley in their region. I think it's a good conspiracy, Wheeling is 30ish minutes closer to Parkersburg than it is to Buckhannon or Preston. The Eastern panhandle is too far away from everything else so that sets region 2. The closest schools to Buckhannon Upshur are Mogantown, University and Preston. Do you put Preston in region 2 where Hampshire is relatively close but everything else is far away or region 1? Region 3 and Region 4 are all relatively close, you could argue flipping several schools. I think it's a valid argument, but at the end of the day I feel like administrators with no sports knowledge sat down and made the regions balanced in number and as close together as geographically possible in AAA. At least all AAA sports have the same regional alignments now.

[vortexfan]

For the this particular great sport, the size of our state, the ever changing school system with consolidations , the traditional power schools, the fans, the coaches and yes maybe revenue. and the wrestlers. GET THE BEST WRESTLERS CONSISTENTLY TO COMPETE AT THE STATES! 2 regions North and South top 8 place for the 16 man bracket. Yes many of the wrestlers in the past was knocked out of the state by the region that year being stacked but why keep this going like this??

Possibly look at open JV tourney with piggyback style tourney to let them have a shot to compete.

Have North WV duals and South Wv duals and those top four teams from each region battle it out for team dual title the following weekend!

[Gator]

This is a snapshot of what the brackets looked like in 1971. One class, 8 regions and only the regional champ qualified for states. This was South's first state champion, Mike Deem's bracket: Back when it was tough to get to the state tournament!

[RWWS]

Can anyone produce a post regarding the regions needing realigned before the realignment occurred? Now that it happened everyone is upset. Great kids have not advanced for years.

[Gator]

Can anyone produce a post regarding the regions needing realigned before the realignment occurred? Now that it happened everyone is upset. Great kids have not advanced for years.

There were many arguments about the need for realignment in Region 1 on the old forum, but you are correct RWWS, there have many great wrestlers who perhaps had a bad day or was placed in a tough bracket in a region that never qualified for the state tournament. If we realigned, it would probably happen again.

[forthekids]

Posted this on another thread. But like so many other things in life seems fitting here... As a member of the Brooke team the won the championship. I will always remember what Coach said at a boosters meeting when the parents thought the Region 1 was unfair. Remember it like yesterday, When asked his reply was, " The cream will rise to the top and if it doesn't then your kid was not the cream. Get over it, that is life and that is what the sport teaches." Could have heard a pin drop. From that moment on everyone knew where he stood. COULD YOU IMAGINE IF A COACH SAID THAT TO A PARNET NOW......

[greencrush]

Posted this on another thread. But like so many other things in life seems fitting here... As a member of the Brooke team the won the championship. I will always remember what Coach said at a boosters meeting when the parents thought the Region 1 was unfair. Remember it like yesterday, When asked his reply was, " The cream will rise to the top and if it doesn't then your kid was not the cream. Get over it, that is life and that is what the sport teaches." Could have heard a pin drop. From that moment on everyone knew where he stood. COULD YOU IMAGINE IF A COACH SAID THAT TO A PARNET NOW......

I would stand up and applaud him. That's a great coach right there, and that's why they were the champs.
That should be the mentality.
Give am a chance to be the best. That's what kids who wrestle strive for. That's why they choose wrestling.

[mike.carman]

Posted this on another thread. But like so many other things in life seems fitting here... As a member of the Brooke team the won the championship. I will always remember what Coach said at a boosters meeting when the parents thought the Region 1 was unfair. Remember it like yesterday, When asked his reply was, " The cream will rise to the top and if it doesn't then your kid was not the cream. Get over it, that is life and that is what the sport teaches." Could have heard a pin drop. From that moment on everyone knew where he stood. COULD YOU IMAGINE IF A COACH SAID THAT TO A PARNET NOW......

Amen!

[Frank]

For the this particular great sport, the size of our state, the ever changing school system with consolidations , the traditional power schools, the fans, the coaches and yes maybe revenue. and the wrestlers. GET THE BEST WRESTLERS CONSISTENTLY TO COMPETE AT THE STATES! 2 regions North and South top 8 place for the 16 man bracket. Yes many of the wrestlers in the past was knocked out of the state by the region that year being stacked but why keep this going like this??

Possibly look at open JV tourney with piggyback style tourney to let them have a shot to compete.

Have North WV duals and South Wv duals and those top four teams from each region battle it out for team dual title the following weekend!

Your stage name might be one of the dumbest listed in wvmat history but your ideas are pretty sound. I really like the duel idea. Keep them coming

[vortexfan]

Thank u Frank!

We need to look at alternatives to make the mprovements to this great sport.

WVMAT forum followers when comparing to other sports remember HS football back in 70s only took the top 2 teams; then SSAC went to top 4 teams;then the top 8 teams and OH My oh My now 16 teams!! Which is better now going back to what sone Knute Rockne coach said?

Times have changed but if you want a below average talented kid make it to the states and some other wrestler knowingly is more talented but doesn't make it to the big dance I guess we stay with what we have or had and say that's how it is.
Can u imagine the crowd; the intensity of two major regional tourneys? Oh wait that will give a couple powerhouses that have won the most state titles in to present system to keep winning with this new system.
I tried to have solution for that too! Have Dualmatches to crown team champ; and just maybe teams like John Marshall; Brooke; Wheeling Pk; Univ Morg.; Ripley St Albans etc... will be able to take more of their team to states if the top 8 go from each region and keep the state team title the same format.
Still love the sport regardless but let's think about what improvements need to be made to make it better for the STUDENT ATHLETES!

[Bearhugger]

you have some consolidations going on down south in the next few years that will make at least 2 more AAA schools. The Eastern Panhandle is busting at the seams and growing everyday, you will have more schools opened over there in the next 4 to 8 years.

Today, the eastern panhandle schools are not too competitive with the rest of the state. Adding more schools due to population growth will not help matters.

As for the consolidation in the south, if the existing schools had competitive wrestling now, then yes, consolidating them could create one viable school.

[Bearhugger]

Posted this on another thread. But like so many other things in life seems fitting here... As a member of the Brooke team the won the championship. I will always remember what Coach said at a boosters meeting when the parents thought the Region 1 was unfair. Remember it like yesterday, When asked his reply was, " The cream will rise to the top and if it doesn't then your kid was not the cream. Get over it, that is life and that is what the sport teaches." Could have heard a pin drop. From that moment on everyone knew where he stood. COULD YOU IMAGINE IF A COACH SAID THAT TO A PARNET NOW......

And now here it is 2017. Brooke is not ranked and has not received a vote all season long. Brooke has only three ranked wrestlers. One is 9th, one is 6th and one is 3rd. With South and Parkersburg down in region 4, these three should qualify.

I did watch a quad with Brooke, South, Ripley and St. Albans. Brooke does have a fuller squad, which is good. The other schools have more cream.

I am not insulting Brooke, I am simply stating facts from the public record here on WVMAT.

Wrestling will be much better off if we look at what is happening today and make changes to help the sport. I like all of the old, hard nosed coaches too. Unfortunately, the soft, macaroni and cheese eating, video game playing youth evidently do not. AAA's participation rate was 79% the last time I checked. I will check again after regionals. I hope it has gone up.

[forthekids]

Bear hugger as always you missed the point totally. When the comment was made Region 1 AAA consisted of Oak Glen, Brooke John Marshall, Wheeling Park, Parkersburg, Parkersburg South, Weirton then Ripley. The entire point he was making was doesn't matter where you are at. If you train and have the skill level the cream will rise. BTW I didn't here anybody asked Morgantown and University if they wanted to jump in the fire but they did. Why you would bring up present day Brooke just shows why you post on here. They have a new first year coach that has a OVAC champ 1st year. Like all schools the are battling. Get over yourself!

[Bearhugger]

There have been JV wrestlers beating varsity kids for years. The regions have been lopsided for years so now we want to make an issue of it. Can anyone show me any other state results where they allow JV to participate. I would've surprised if there are any that allow it.

Idaho allows the JV to enter the sectional tournament. If they place, they advance.

[Bearhugger]

Bear hugger as always you missed the point totally. When the comment was made Region 1 AAA consisted of Oak Glen, Brooke John Marshall, Wheeling Park, Parkersburg, Parkersburg South, Weirton then Ripley. The entire point he was making was doesn't matter where you are at. If you train and have the skill level the cream will rise. BTW I didn't here anybody asked Morgantown and University if they wanted to jump in the fire but they did. Why you would bring up present day Brooke just shows why you post on here. They have a new first year coach that has a OVAC champ 1st year. Like all schools the are battling. Get over yourself!

You brought up Brooke. I just continued on the subject. Oak Glen and Weirton have dropped to AA. Parkersburg, South and Ripley are down in region 4 now. Region 1 is easier now than ever.

Some speech somebody gave 20 to 100 years ago doesn't help anything today.

[P.H.D.]

Bear hugger as always you missed the point totally. When the comment was made Region 1 AAA consisted of Oak Glen, Brooke John Marshall, Wheeling Park, Parkersburg, Parkersburg South, Weirton then Ripley. The entire point he was making was doesn't matter where you are at. If you train and have the skill level the cream will rise. BTW I didn't here anybody asked Morgantown and University if they wanted to jump in the fire but they did. Why you would bring up present day Brooke just shows why you post on here. They have a new first year coach that has a OVAC champ 1st year. Like all schools the are battling. Get over yourself!

A first year coach had an OVAC CHAMPION? What club is not getting the credit for that wrestler? Give that club the credit due...

[brentsams]

Track and Field advances the top three from each region then the 4 best times for 16 participants per event at the state meet. I wonder if wrestling could do something similar with instate winning percentages (minus forfeits). This could or could not include JVs.

Thanks - Brent

[Bearhugger]

Bear hugger as always you missed the point totally. When the comment was made Region 1 AAA consisted of Oak Glen, Brooke John Marshall, Wheeling Park, Parkersburg, Parkersburg South, Weirton then Ripley. The entire point he was making was doesn't matter where you are at. If you train and have the skill level the cream will rise. BTW I didn't here anybody asked Morgantown and University if they wanted to jump in the fire but they did. Why you would bring up present day Brooke just shows why you post on here. They have a new first year coach that has a OVAC champ 1st year. Like all schools the are battling. Get over yourself!

A first year coach had an OVAC CHAMPION? What club is not getting the credit for that wrestler? Give that club the credit due...

The Brooke Wrestler is one of two returning state tournament qualifiers for Brooke. He placed 6th last season in the state. In the OVAC finals, he defeated another WV wrestler who was the returning OVAC champion and 3rd in the AA/A states. This same wrestler was down to 195 the following weekend. Two good wrestlers. Both destined for the OVAC finals.