Regional Realignment

[Gator]

So coach, if a group of parents, fans or boosters from a school goes out on their own time and works car washes, bingos, fund raisers or cash drawings, you are saying that the money raised should go into a group fund for all schools to share? That's absurd!! Who in their right mind would think that is reasonable?!?!

Also, are you affiliated with any AAA school? I thought you had a kid who wrestled for Braxton County? If that is the case, why are you so concerned with AAA?

[coach_williams]

So coach, if a group of parents, fans or boosters from a school goes out on their own time and works car washes, bingos, fund raisers or cash drawings, you are saying that the money raised should go into a group fund for all schools to share? That's absurd!! Who in their right mind would think that is reasonable?!?!

Also, are you affiliated with any AAA school? I thought you had a kid who wrestled for Braxton County? If that is the case, why are you so concerned with AAA?

I know it is absurd, but you are the one who said you want parity. That is parity. Equal sharing of everything. The NFL has parity by profit-sharing of NFL income. Parity is not spreading good teams around.

Since when do I have to be coaching or my son wrestling at a AAA school to have input or thoughts on something happening in AAA? is that the way this works? AAA people are only allowed to discuss things regarding AAA schools and AA/A people are only allowed to discuss things in AA/A? Makes a lot of sense. Wrestling in the state should get much better with that attitude.

[rodrego]

Quit bickering.......unite the state!!!! One division.

[Gator]

When did we go from talking talking parity among regions to sharing funds or money around? You want parity, go out and work for it like every other school.

I could give a rip about the NFL and what they do. So that has nothing to do with anything.

[vortexfan]

Good Points Gator and B Sams; I think regardless what sport your participating in athletes,coaches and fans would like things to go their way but most of all you want the best participants to compete for the grand prize, Region 4 is loaded this year on AAA and Region 1 in AA/A but years down the road it very well could be another region with this situation.
Lets find a way to make it work for the best to compete and enjoy the best sport of all time for the future of this states sport of wrestling.
I would love to see the best there at the states and confident that will not be the case this year! Call it what it isl Some of you want to say find a way to win, well they have been all season long then regional comes along and the better ones may not get to participate in the STATES.

[Ol'Dad]

Obviously Region 4 is tough. That said, it's no tougher than Region 1 has been for years.
Region 2 will be back to it's former glory whenever East Fairmont and North Marion are back in AAA where they belong. A few small classes dropped them to AA, but that won't last forever. They can look at this as their window to bring a state title to the school, before they are reclassed to AAA.
Region 3 needs Buchannon Upsur back, but With GW and St. Albans in the region (they've been region 4 for years) and Greenbrier E./ St. Albans emerging as top 10 teams, I don't know that Ripley needs moved back to R3.
Essentially Ripley and GW+SA will have traded regions, which makes sense due to location.

North Marion will not be AAA anytime soon. As for East I can't speak to that

[coach_williams]

When did we go from talking talking parity among regions to sharing funds or money around? You want parity, go out and work for it like every other school.

I could give a rip about the NFL and what they do. So that has nothing to do with anything.

You said you want parity. The problem is you clearly don't have the slightest idea what parity is, so nevermind.

[Jbee]

Wgats next?.....Aligning the regions so the "correct wrestler" gets the correct spot in the bracket.

Earn it....finish 1st thru 4th and punch your ticket. finish 5th and you stay at home.


I agree its a little lopsided but they are not changing. check back in 2019 they will change but it wont be what the crowd wants.

[aaacoach89]

Have you heard of the word, parity? When you stack the top 5 returning teams in the same region, some high quality wrestlers are going to be staying home while weaker regions will send wrestlers to the state tournament that some of the stronger region's wrestler have beat all year. It should be about getting the best wrestlers to the state tournament. It really doesn't have anything to do with teams, but the wrestlers on those teams. Using the same theory, you should therefore put most the good wrestlers in the upper bracket at the state tournament and put the weaker ones together in the bottom bracket so they can make the finals. It makes no sense.

Yes I have heard of parity. I used it in this thread somewhere. Parity has nothing to do with moving teams around to balance competition. In 2010 when the 7-9 Seahawks made the playoffs because they were in a weak division and the 10-6 Giants didn't make it, nobody suggested moving the 10-6 Eagles (who won the NFC East) to the NFC West so that the West could have a legitimate playoff team and the Giants could go to the playoffs.

Parity is about creating equality. If we are going for true parity in WV high school wrestling:
- every team needs to receive the same funding, so all funds raised needs to go into a pool and every team gets an equal share
- every team needs to be given the same travel parameters instead of some getting to travel 300 miles out of state while others are restricted to 50 miles
- every team gets the same opportunity for off-season practice instead of some ADs making wrestling teams stay away from the practice room after the season ends while other ADs "look the other way" as teams hold practice over the entire summer break

Coach, I agree that Parity is about creating equality. I also agree with all of the points you made in regards to going for true parity, but wouldn't it be going for true parity to align the regions in such a manner that each region had, an as close to possible, number of the states top teams, up and coming teams, and teams that struggle? This way the regions would be "equal", or close to it, in competition. Wouldn't this allow for the regions best wrestlers to have a more equal shot of making it to the state tournament? Nothing for nothing, but if a 5th or 6th place finisher from one region can/would knock of a champ from another region, how is that what's best for the sport or the kids? I agree 100% with what you said about the sport not being sold or promoted properly, and I do agree that is the long term solution, but I also feel that finding short term fixes for issues, while working on long term solutions for those issues works best for the sport and kids.

In no way am I attempting to be disrespectful to your comments, just asking from a different point of view.

[Gator]

When did we go from talking talking parity among regions to sharing funds or money around? You want parity, go out and work for it like every other school.

I could give a rip about the NFL and what they do. So that has nothing to do with anything.

You said you want parity. The problem is you clearly don't have the slightest idea what parity is, so nevermind.

Yeah, you are correct coach. I don't have a clue. Happy now? We just need to agree to disagree. It's not helping anything.

[Bearhugger]

Er, um, why not wait and see how the tournament goes before making any pronouncements such as "watered down state tournament."

There are many athletes working very hard to get to the states this year, as they do every year.

To characterize the state tournament as "watered down" is most certainly disrespectful to these athletes as you trivialize their goals.

Please do not disrespect our athletes.

We are on course for ranked wrestlers to be beat out of qualification due to being placed in a newly created region that contains six out of the top 10 teams.

Some weight classes in some regions are not even reflecting 4 wrestlers. I will stand corrected that in these final 2 1/2 weeks that wrestlers can be produced (join the team, move up/down) and bring these weight classes to at least 4.

[Bearhugger]

Bearhugger.....why are you so worried about AAA being watered down....but you aren't for one division?? One state champion eliminates this problem altogether.

At the current time, using Single A teams to solve AAA challenges should be looked at later on down the road. There are plenty of other solutions that have been mentioned by many that could and would help AAA's regional and potential bye situation.

[greencrush]

Er, um, why not wait and see how the tournament goes before making any pronouncements such as "watered down state tournament."

There are many athletes working very hard to get to the states this year, as they do every year.

To characterize the state tournament as "watered down" is most certainly disrespectful to these athletes as you trivialize their goals.

Please do not disrespect our athletes.

We are on course for ranked wrestlers to be beat out of qualification due to being placed in a newly created region that contains six out of the top 10 teams.

Some weight classes in some regions are not even reflecting 4 wrestlers. I will stand corrected that in these final 2 1/2 weeks that wrestlers can be produced (join the team, move up/down) and bring these weight classes to at least 4.

Fact of the matter is, those rankings don't mean squat. As someone else said, if you want to go to the state tournament, place in the top 4 at regionals and punch your ticket.
I haven't done the research, but I am willing to bet 10+ ranked wrestlers (obviously referring to the top 6) fail to place every year, and 10+ unranked wrestlers find their way onto the podium. I can do the research if you want to call me on the EXACT accuracy of those numbers, but you can not deny that it happens.
You can bicker, argue, guess, and project all you want. You'll never get it 100% right.
Let's not argue to realign regions in accordance with rankings which have been proven inaccurate time and time again.
It'll come out at the state tournament, and the best wrestler will stand atop the podium.

[Bearhugger]

Er, um, why not wait and see how the tournament goes before making any pronouncements such as "watered down state tournament."

There are many athletes working very hard to get to the states this year, as they do every year.

To characterize the state tournament as "watered down" is most certainly disrespectful to these athletes as you trivialize their goals.

Please do not disrespect our athletes.

We are on course for ranked wrestlers to be beat out of qualification due to being placed in a newly created region that contains six out of the top 10 teams.

Some weight classes in some regions are not even reflecting 4 wrestlers. I will stand corrected that in these final 2 1/2 weeks that wrestlers can be produced (join the team, move up/down) and bring these weight classes to at least 4.

Fact of the matter is, those rankings don't mean squat. As someone else said, if you want to go to the state tournament, place in the top 4 at regionals and punch your ticket.
I haven't done the research, but I am willing to bet 10+ ranked wrestlers (obviously referring to the top 6) fail to place every year, and 10+ unranked wrestlers find their way onto the podium. I can do the research if you want to call me on the EXACT accuracy of those numbers, but you can not deny that it happens.
You can bicker, argue, guess, and project all you want. You'll never get it 100% right.
Let's not argue to realign regions in accordance with rankings which have been proven inaccurate time and time again.
It'll come out at the state tournament, and the best wrestler will stand atop the podium.

I suggest you do some research.

[greencrush]

We are on course for ranked wrestlers to be beat out of qualification due to being placed in a newly created region that contains six out of the top 10 teams.

Some weight classes in some regions are not even reflecting 4 wrestlers. I will stand corrected that in these final 2 1/2 weeks that wrestlers can be produced (join the team, move up/down) and bring these weight classes to at least 4.

Fact of the matter is, those rankings don't mean squat. As someone else said, if you want to go to the state tournament, place in the top 4 at regionals and punch your ticket.
I haven't done the research, but I am willing to bet 10+ ranked wrestlers (obviously referring to the top 6) fail to place every year, and 10+ unranked wrestlers find their way onto the podium. I can do the research if you want to call me on the EXACT accuracy of those numbers, but you can not deny that it happens.
You can bicker, argue, guess, and project all you want. You'll never get it 100% right.
Let's not argue to realign regions in accordance with rankings which have been proven inaccurate time and time again.
It'll come out at the state tournament, and the best wrestler will stand atop the podium.

I suggest you do some research.

Sure thing. I'll be back with it later, since you're so certain. Fact of the matter is that I already checked. I just didn't record it for rapid regurgitation, so be ready to eat crow.

[RWWS]

Ranked wrestlers don't make it to the state tournament every year it is what it is sometimes. The regions will not always be equal and haven't been for years there is always a more dominant region you just can't do anything about it in some situations. Regions may not be fair and but neither is life.

[Bearhugger]

Fact of the matter is, those rankings don't mean squat. As someone else said, if you want to go to the state tournament, place in the top 4 at regionals and punch your ticket.
I haven't done the research, but I am willing to bet 10+ ranked wrestlers (obviously referring to the top 6) fail to place every year, and 10+ unranked wrestlers find their way onto the podium. I can do the research if you want to call me on the EXACT accuracy of those numbers, but you can not deny that it happens.
You can bicker, argue, guess, and project all you want. You'll never get it 100% right.
Let's not argue to realign regions in accordance with rankings which have been proven inaccurate time and time again.
It'll come out at the state tournament, and the best wrestler will stand atop the podium.

I suggest you do some research.

Sure thing. I'll be back with it later, since you're so certain. Fact of the matter is that I already checked. I just didn't record it for rapid regurgitation, so be ready to eat crow.

Anytime anybody can comment on a subject and back it up with some quantifiable data, it only helps educate the readers on what is really going on.

[rodrego]

Bearhugger.....why are you so worried about AAA being watered down....but you aren't for one division?? One state champion eliminates this problem altogether.

At the current time, using Single A teams to solve AAA challenges should be looked at later on down the road. There are plenty of other solutions that have been mentioned by many that could and would help AAA's regional and potential bye situation.

Why wait? The movie Hoosiers wouldnt have been so interesting if Hickory wasn't a poor little single a school. (Sorry bout the B ball reference). Unite!!!!!!

[greencrush]

I suggest you do some research.

Sure thing. I'll be back with it later, since you're so certain. Fact of the matter is that I already checked. I just didn't record it for rapid regurgitation, so be ready to eat crow.

Anytime anybody can comment on a subject and back it up with some quantifiable data, it only helps educate the readers on what is really going on.

Fair point.

[Bearhugger]

Sure thing. I'll be back with it later, since you're so certain. Fact of the matter is that I already checked. I just didn't record it for rapid regurgitation, so be ready to eat crow.

Anytime anybody can comment on a subject and back it up with some quantifiable data, it only helps educate the readers on what is really going on.

Fair point.

We are getting closer to common ground already.

[rodrego]

Quantify this........one classification....Is simple solution. Der.

[RWWS]

Region 1 team has won the state team title 38 of the past 41 year. JM, Park, South, Parkersburg, Brooke and Weir. The only schools outside of Region 1 were Huntington twice and North Marion. Maybe it was time for a change

[Sally]

I disagree with moving any teams in and out of regions. I say this in hopes there will be a different system than what we currently use.

Make the season win/loss record more meaningful. Create rules that base head to head, common opponent, etc, and award points based on performance. What if a kid is injured and doesn't have the ability to gain quality points during the season? The regions can still be seeded and wrestled for kids who missed due to sickness or injury. Just open the door for those number 5 and 6 place finishers in a tough region to win a "Bid" for the state tournament.

No need to move teams. Just modify the current system of, top 4 at regional qualify. Make changes to what we have to create a tougher state tournament. We already have rankings based on head to head and common opponents. Quality wins against tough competition during the season mean you can qualify for states and earn a higher seed. This way you are placing wrestlers based on their performance, not where they live. Would this modification increase weeknight dual matches, excitement, community, fans?

example: If the regional tournament were this weekend- AAA Region 4 113 has 6 kids ranked in the top 10. Award 2 extra bids to this class for the state tournament. AAA Region 4 has 7 weight classes with 5 kids ranked in the top 10 (120,132,138,145,152,170,182). Award 1 extra bid for these classes. The rankings are based on results.

This is all hypothetical.

[Bearhugger]

Region 1 team has won the state team title 38 of the past 41 year. JM, Park, South, Parkersburg, Brooke and Weir. The only schools outside of Region 1 were Huntington twice and North Marion. Maybe it was time for a change

The change has already happened.

Parkersburg and Parkersburg South have been pulled OUT of region 1 and placed over in region 4 WITH Huntington. North Marion is now ranked in the top ten in AA/A.

I am sure that Parkersburg and Parkersburg South won over 95% of those titles that region 1 won in 38 years. Add all of these titles with Huntington's two. The only justification I can see is it looks good on a map.

[Bearhugger]

I disagree with moving any teams in and out of regions. I say this in hopes there will be a different system than what we currently use.

Make the season win/loss record more meaningful. Create rules that base head to head, common opponent, etc, and award points based on performance. What if a kid is injured and doesn't have the ability to gain quality points during the season? The regions can still be seeded and wrestled for kids who missed due to sickness or injury. Just open the door for those number 5 and 6 place finishers in a tough region to win a "Bid" for the state tournament.

No need to move teams. Just modify the current system of, top 4 at regional qualify. Make changes to what we have to create a tougher state tournament. We already have rankings based on head to head and common opponents. Quality wins against tough competition during the season mean you can qualify for states and earn a higher seed. This way you are placing wrestlers based on their performance, not where they live. Would this modification increase weeknight dual matches, excitement, community, fans?

example: If the regional tournament were this weekend- AAA Region 4 113 has 6 kids ranked in the top 10. Award 2 extra bids to this class for the state tournament. AAA Region 4 has 7 weight classes with 5 kids ranked in the top 10 (120,132,138,145,152,170,182). Award 1 extra bid for these classes. The rankings are based on results.

This is all hypothetical.

Means to an end. I think everybody wants the same "end". The best wrestlers competing in the state tournament.

The current "means" (regions, no JV) is not providing this.

[greencrush]

We are on course for ranked wrestlers to be beat out of qualification due to being placed in a newly created region that contains six out of the top 10 teams.

Some weight classes in some regions are not even reflecting 4 wrestlers. I will stand corrected that in these final 2 1/2 weeks that wrestlers can be produced (join the team, move up/down) and bring these weight classes to at least 4.

Fact of the matter is, those rankings don't mean squat. As someone else said, if you want to go to the state tournament, place in the top 4 at regionals and punch your ticket.
I haven't done the research, but I am willing to bet 10+ ranked wrestlers (obviously referring to the top 6) fail to place every year, and 10+ unranked wrestlers find their way onto the podium.

I suggest you do some research.

Here's some common ground for you. I started back at 2010, so we have a viable sample size and can get an accurate average. I'll be back with 2010-present later, but here is a preview.

2010 30 ranked wrestlers DNP ( did not place)
12 unranked (UR) wrestlers did place

18 other wrestlers outside the top 6 placed

Rank/name/ actual place
103 AA
#6 Stump DNP
UR Maciver 6th
112AAA
#6 Cheslock, DNP
UR Yeisley 6th
112AA
#3 Kelly DNP
119 AAA
#4 Walker DNP
119AA
#5 Cornell DNP
125AA
#3 Shreaver DNP
130AAA
#6 Montgomery DNP
UR Smith #6
130AA
#4 Marshall DNP
UR Hypes #3
135AAA
#2 Parsons DNP
UR Roberson #5
140AAA
#4 Leusher DNP
145AAA
#4 JackDNP
UR Garcia #6
145AA
#6 Hilty DNP
152AAA
#2 Levitan DNP
#6 King DNP
UR Marshall #6
152AA
#3 Palm DNP
#5 Taylor DNP
UR Lynch #6
160AAA
#6 Weaver DNP
160AA
#6 Aldridge DNP
UR Kidwell #6
171AA
#4 Mathai DNP
#5 Dye DNP
#6 Mcbeath DNP
UR Nelson #6
189AAA
#6 Brogle DNP
189AA
#3 Neely DNP
#6 Wariner DNP
215 AAA
#6 Choe DNP
285AAA
#2 Robinson DNP
#5 Vanhorn DNP
#6 Sands DNP
UR Townsend #3
(of note) #8 Cotterall Champ
285 AA
#4 Long DNP
#5 Nelson DNP
UR Starr #4

Actually, we should do away with a state tournament all together, and just award medals to the ranked wrestlers. 2011 and 12 look even worse. I'll compile them later.

[dontlikethelights]

AAA titles by team in the last 41 years
South - 19 46.4%
Parkersburg - 10 24.5 %
Wheeling Park - 6 14.6%
Huntington -2 4.9%
Weir - 1 2.4%
John Marshall - 1 2.4%
Brooke - 1 2.4%
North Marion - 1 2.4%

[RWWS]

7.3% outside of region 1

[RWWS]

And I would imagine over the course of those Region 1 tournaments some pretty good kids didn't qualify.

[forthekids]

The pendulum has swung! Everything going to be aright !