Has WV wrestling gone downhill as a whole?

[washedupwrestler]

My opinion (you're free to crucify me if I'm blatantly incorrect here) from watching the past 3-4 years of high school wrestling is that the talent has gone WAY down. I'm comparing current ability levels and competition to 2000-2006. Back then it seemed there were good matches and upsets starting with the 2nd round of every tournament and now it seems as if each team (minus the top 3-4 in the state) only has 1-3 good wrestlers and almost every match besides semis and finals is a tech fall or easy win for the higher seeded wrestler.

When I'm watching matches I routinely find myself in awe at how few wrestlers even know the basics and how most shoot without a setup, dive in from 5 feet away, only attack from directly in front of their opponent, don't know how to hit a proper standup, give up takedowns on the edge of the mat, give up reversals or escapes with 2-3 seconds left on the clock.


Am I the only one that is completely bored watching high school wrestling now besides for semis/finals matches?

[washedupwrestler]

http://www.wvmat.com/statetou/03aaa.htm

I don't see a single wrestler from this year beating any of the 03 champions, maybe but even top three in most weight classes. Same for most years in this time frame.

[mscoach81]

I agree. It's not just state wide but all states.
It's easier to do anything else including run the streets and post photos on social sites and sit by yourself and have 1000 social media friends than have to do "work" and go to wrestling practice.
It's not sports, wrestling, or kids in general. It's the world shifting from what it was to what it will be
Very few will make it through the system with a laser focus like times of a decade ago.
2003 was a good year, I still think the kids at very top would compete with kids of 2003. AA and AAA.
2003 had hammers. The Easters, Turnbill, Mitch Casto, Mitch Smith,and Lou Thomas who would beat any 220 of today.
But several of the hammers in each class today would compete and I bet win in several classes.
Humphreys at 120 would win, Henson at 126 win, Lucas Simpsons... I don't know ask him I guess if he can beat Smith...I'm guessing they have wrestled. Lol. Adam Whitmore at 52 win.
What would happen is what always happens... The hard working dedicated type that you can't teach but are born with a deep desire to be the best will always be the top... Like those mention above.
They will also exist in 2025, the difference is the rest of the field will continue to weaken and drop off.
It's too hard for kids now to work that hard for a 6th place finish. So they don't. Which breeds less competition and therefore breeds less great matches like you remember from the past.

[TrueSouthFanInPburg]

oh, i remember 2003 now. that was a great year for the city of parkersburg. phs and south finished 1 and 2 dominating the rest ! and how in the world can you not mention 4 time state champ and 2 time all american at wvu brandon rader.

[mscoach81]

No doubt. Rader definitely on the list.
Prob a good example here though how the top is still elite.
I'm guessing him in 2003 would struggle with josh Humphrey of today.
However rest of the podium today might lose to their podium counterpart of 2003.

[Bearhugger]

My observations indicate that the strong get stronger and the weak have gotten weaker.
1. We do indeed have more first round pins in the first 1 to 2 rounds of any tournament.
2. We have more 3 and 4 time state champions now than ever before.

Fewer wrestlers look like they spend much time in the weight room.
1. More wrestlers seem to get hauled off on stretchers.
2. More matches are spent wrestling on their knees and using more tilts. Good techniques, but they require less effort.
3. More competitive matches are decided 1 to 0 or in SV OT. There is more stalling, less wrestling to secure a near fall and even less effort to prevent an escape.

Wrestlers qualify and/or place in the state tournament but do not wrestle the following year.
1. More wrestlers seem to get in more trouble these days.
2. More wrestlers seem to get into grade trouble these days.
3. More wrestlers' families move away from WV these days.

Participation is low, despite the girls being allowed to compete.

None of the above was an issue in the 80s like it is now.

[Truesouthfaninhunt]

1: Brandon Rader beats anyone even close to his weight today! ANYONE!
2: We have kids today that make it to the State Tournament that would not have qualified 8-10 years ago. So I agree with "hugger" that the overall depth of quality wrestlers has diminished.
3: South has been hit less by my point in #2 when compared to other schools. Thus they continue to field a quality team ... Year in year out. Wrestling is simply more important in
Pkbg.
4: overall ... Region 1 is not as dominant as they once were.
5: I don't blame people for disagreeing with me one bit.

[Bearhugger]

Region 1 is not as dominant because the programs are facing the same challenges all programs are dealing with. Also, some other schools have caught up.

[washedupwrestler]

Yea there's definitely no one that would beat the elite from back then. Rader Smith etc. It was just a different type of aggressive wrestling. I don't think Henson would win either from what I saw against tarik.

[CommonSense]

03 vs today

Henson wins 125
Simpkins wins 135
Tenney wins 145
Johnson wins 170
Allman wins 189

Every other weighty class goes to 03

The tops of today can always compete with every generation but the depth of 10+ years ago would destroy today's kids. Take the 4-6 placers of 03 and they probably sweep the the 4-6 of this year.

[mscoach4]

AA/A is better than ever (see winners choice results) while AAA has definitely slipped, a dual between the champions of each class would be very interesting this year. I for one would definitely travel to see that dual. My guess is that AA/A would win and it would be possibly be more exciting to see than the state tourney.

[washedupwrestler]

No way could the allman I watched at ovac even come close to Tominack.

I also don't see Henson beating grogg. Wilson took Henson down with ease 5 times with the same exact attack.

[Repoman1304]

AA/A is better than ever (see winners choice results) while AAA has definitely slipped, a dual between the champions of each class would be very interesting this year. I for one would definitely travel to see that dual. My guess is that AA/A would win and it would be possibly be more exciting to see than the state tourney.

Lets make it even better have a dual between the state champs from A/AA and AAA that would be awesome!

[Bearhugger]

AA/A is better than ever (see winners choice results) while AAA has definitely slipped, a dual between the champions of each class would be very interesting this year. I for one would definitely travel to see that dual. My guess is that AA/A would win and it would be possibly be more exciting to see than the state tourney.

Hold on a minute. Most top AA programs were AAA not too long ago. Independence is the true AA powerhouse. They have been a AA school forever and they would have won the WSAZ.

Next year, AA/A will be even more dominant with the reclassification

In less then 10 years, we will be lucky to have 15 schools in AAA with wrestling programs.

[HolyHighCrotch]

Yes Bearhugger some were AAA a few years ago and they were the smallest schools in AAA barely making the cut. Some less than half the size of Parkersburg South, which begs the question, although 19 team titles is incredible, how many times did a school less than half their size defeat them or give them a run for their money. Not many but it has happened.

[WashedUp02]

Logan Grass, Dylan Cottrell, Jared Haught, Justin Arthur, Noah Adams, Lucas Simpkins, Jordan Allen, Josh Humphries, The Dunbars, Rusty Manace, David Jeffrey, and I'm sure they're many many more, including the ones mentioned above. But these are some of the more recent-present bad dudes in wrestling who were some of the P4P best in WV.

[HolyHighCrotch]

Washedup02 answered the question. No, WV wrestling talent is not on a decline. Those are all great wrestlers that were more recent than the original post and there are current superior wrestlers still wrestling. The difference is that there are more year around wresrling opportunities but with few wrestlers taking adavantage, which is creating wider talent gaps than the 80s and 90s. These talent gaps give a perception of got its and don't got its where in the early 80s and 90s there were closer competition because most wrestlers were only seasonal athletes.

[Matofficial]

2011, 2012 and 2013 produced several D1 wrestlers and WVs next All Americans. 2012 produced 3 four time state champs that were as good as any previous wrestlers. 2011 produced Fisher, Bauer and Maness, 2012 Jeffrey, Cottrell, Bicak, Hull and Bennett. 2013 Arthur, Haught and Smith. Sorry if I left anyone out but these guys wrestled everywhere and were as tough as anyone.

[washedupwrestler]

2011, 2012 and 2013 produced several D1 wrestlers and WVs next All Americans. 2012 produced 3 four time state champs that were as good as any previous wrestlers. 2011 produced Fisher, Bauer and Maness, 2012 Jeffrey, Cottrell, Bicak, Hull and Bennett. 2013 Arthur, Haught and Smith. Sorry if I left anyone out but these guys wrestled everywhere and were as tough as anyone.

I agree, but besides the elite wrestlers the others don't look like they even know the basics. Makes for a very long and frustrating day.

[Matofficial]

Having coached and officiated since the early 70s I hate to agree with washupwrestler but overall you are probably correct.

[J.W.]

The entire conversation is meaningless, it like the Michael Jordan or Lebron James argument. Different eras, different rules, different opponents.

[TrueSouthFanInPburg]

Go South

[washedupwrestler]

The entire conversation is meaningless, it like the Michael Jordan or Lebron James argument. Different eras, different rules, different opponents.

You must have missed the premise of the post.


Besides the top 2-3 in each weight class most wrestlers currently competing look like they do not even know the basics.

[Bearhugger]

The "strong" have gotten stronger and the "weak" have gotten weaker.

[washedupwrestler]

The "strong" have gotten stronger and the "weak" have gotten weaker.

Since the class of 2006 how many wrestlers have become NCAA all-americans?

[J.W.]

Besides the top 2-3 in each weight class most wrestlers currently competing look like they do not even know the basics.

I got the premise but 113 has Whorton, Bertrandand Sharpe all All Americans at Junior Olympics, Martin from South, Recrosio that moved in from PA that is tough, Spencer from Roane, Efaw from North Marion and a few others that are competitive.

106 has Laya and the rest of the field but a strong group of up and coming g young men that will leave their mark on history.

120 with Humphreys, Moore, Harris, and Rea leading the pack and Nice, Hissam, kid from Preston and a some other AAA kids that are making their mark.

126 scattered a few away.but still has Henson, Secrist, Robertson, McCune, Austin Spears, and Adkins who are all good wrestlers.

132 with Crewdson, Donahue, Moore and Jeffers and then Bozek, Pumphrey, Metheny and another Hart.

138 with Good and Reichard and another Gibson, AAA has Simpkins, Atkins, Lanham.

145 was stacked at Winners Choice and Cox was not even there. Tenney, Pine, Harmon, Holly and Derito, Booth, Kuhn, and Currence make for an I Teresa g weight class.

152 has Michael, Shuman, Elliot, Ritchie, Hovermale, Whitmore, Nash, and the long laid off Jordan. Pretty good group there also.

160 is loaded with Jones, Johnson, Morgan, Ritchie, Shaw, Horner and an up and coming Moomau.

170 Hart, Moore, Lucas, Jarvis, Johnson, Lambiotte, Morgan and Minihan.

182 Delong, Holley, Schoonover, Cook, Murphy, Stewart, Lewis, Long make an k teresting tourney.

195 Adams, White, Abbot, Allman, Safford, Pomeroy and Lunsford.

220 Mills, Daniels, Nice, Price, Lake, are all very competitive.

285 is the land of low scoring g but Markley, Carey, Cummings gs, Wykle, Stierwalt, and Safford are all competitive wrestlers.

These are all wrestlers, more than thtee and missing some others, that probably deserve more respect than being told they are not any good by some has beens or never hads on a wrestling forum. Remember the wrestlers that you talk about read these posts also.

[washedupwrestler]

Besides the top 2-3 in each weight class most wrestlers currently competing look like they do not even know the basics.

I got the premise but 113 has Whorton, Bertrandand Sharpe all All Americans at Junior Olympics, Martin from South, Recrosio that moved in from PA that is tough, Spencer from Roane, Efaw from North Marion and a few others that are competitive.

106 has Laya and the rest of the field but a strong group of up and coming g young men that will leave their mark on history.

120 with Humphreys, Moore, Harris, and Rea leading the pack and Nice, Hissam, kid from Preston and a some other AAA kids that are making their mark.

126 scattered a few away.but still has Henson, Secrist, Robertson, McCune, Austin Spears, and Adkins who are all good wrestlers.

132 with Crewdson, Donahue, Moore and Jeffers and then Bozek, Pumphrey, Metheny and another Hart.

138 with Good and Reichard and another Gibson, AAA has Simpkins, Atkins, Lanham.

145 was stacked at Winners Choice and Cox was not even there. Tenney, Pine, Harmon, Holly and Derito, Booth, Kuhn, and Currence make for an I Teresa g weight class.

152 has Michael, Shuman, Elliot, Ritchie, Hovermale, Whitmore, Nash, and the long laid off Jordan. Pretty good group there also.

160 is loaded with Jones, Johnson, Morgan, Ritchie, Shaw, Horner and an up and coming Moomau.

170 Hart, Moore, Lucas, Jarvis, Johnson, Lambiotte, Morgan and Minihan.

182 Delong, Holley, Schoonover, Cook, Murphy, Stewart, Lewis, Long make an k teresting tourney.

195 Adams, White, Abbot, Allman, Safford, Pomeroy and Lunsford.

220 Mills, Daniels, Nice, Price, Lake, are all very competitive.

285 is the land of low scoring g but Markley, Carey, Cummings gs, Wykle, Stierwalt, and Safford are all competitive wrestlers.

These are all wrestlers, more than thtee and missing some others, that probably deserve more respect than being told they are not any good by some has beens or never hads on a wrestling forum. Remember the wrestlers that you talk about read these posts also.

I'm completely with you on not hurting feelings, but from what I've seen the last three years of watching states and ovacs other than the top 3-4 the matches are full of mistakes that shouldn't be made by anyone who had wrestled more than two years. I don't know half the wrestlers you named but I guess I didn't see them last year at States. Not even all the final matches were competitive.

[1997careyfinalist]

Our county recently opened a 2nd high school and added probably 3 or 4 new middle schools which seems to have watered down our local wrestling a bit. I think a lot of the newer schools opening up struggle with a wrestling program to start which sputters the growth of these guys as they move toward high school. Just my opinion. I really only pay attention to our local wrestling and I struggle to find a kid in our county in the past 10 years that I can honestly say he would have made our varsity team in the late 90's.

[Panther_coach]

As much as I hate to say it, I have to say it has gone down. Kids just do not stick with it through high school. I have seen kids at the youth and middle school levels who were every bit as good as the kids mentioned from years past at the same age but they just disappear. I had several on my Milton teams that I feel could have been multi time state champions but they left the sport for various reasons. Heck one kid who was one of the best I ever coached (and there were some really good ones over the years) left the sport because he thinks he is going to be either a pro skateboarder or a white rapper ala Eminem! One thing that I hear not just locally but state wide is that the football coaches require that they not wrestle but spend time in the off season weight program. Couple this with the lure of big money schollys and prestige of football and wrestling falls by the wayside. I also think the lack of a viable JV schedule at many schools is a culprit. Who wants to get your butt kicked in practice every day by the seniors when you are a freshman and never get a chance to compete? Add in the distractions of cars, jobs, girlfriends, etc. plus the fact that wrestling requires so much sacrifice and only a few have the mentality to embrace it. Don't blame coaches or even the kids ... They are growing up in an era of instant gratification where most everything is given to them without hard work and do not know how to respond to the demands wrestling entails. I used to coach mainly farm kids who were used to hard work, now they just play video games, watch Netflix and text their friends. I always said that wrestling introduces a man to himself and many are meeting someone who sees easier things to do. Sad, but it is the way things are now. The best wrestlers are as good or better than the ones from the past but there are just not as many of them.

[Bearhugger]

Panther Coach is the EF Hutton of WVMAT.

When Panther Coach talks...................................people listen.