ringworm14 wrote:Lloyd Christmas wrote:You said "where was the outrage when it was region 4" Im just saying it was NEVER region 4. Thanks
2006 region 4 places 33 at states…meaning the other 51 spots was between three regions…average 17 per region. Not quite rankings…not double. But…close.
You’re welcome.
“Beware of the ringworm!”
— Maui
ringworm14 wrote:Lloyd Christmas wrote:You said "where was the outrage when it was region 4" Im just saying it was NEVER region 4. Thanks
2006 region 4 places 33 at states…meaning the other 51 spots was between three regions…average 17 per region. Not quite rankings…not double. But…close.
You’re welcome.
“Beware of the ringworm!”
— Maui
Lloyd Christmas wrote:You said "where was the outrage when it was region 4" Im just saying it was NEVER region 4. Thanks
aacoach108 wrote:List of AA-A ranked wrestlers who did not qualify for states out of their respective regions: (from the latest ranking, and only counting ranked wrestlers who actually wrestled, not those who scratched)
https://www.wvmat.com/polls/2402092a.htm
Region One (Previous State Placement in Parenthesis)
106 #4 Wes Files (Frankfort)
126 #5 Owen Rotruck (Keyser)
126 #8 Wyatt Wolanski (Oak Glen) (4th@120 in '23)
132 #4 Delbert Van Tassel (Cameron)
138 #4 Caden Michalski (Fairmont Sr) (6th@120 in '22)
138 #8 Alex Smith (Frankfort) (5th@126 in '23)
165 #6 LJ Diaz (East Fairmont)
165 #10 Daniel Shoemaker (Keyser)
190 #10 Krystian Norris (Berkeley Springs)
Region Two
138 #10 Landon Bush (Lewis County)
Region Three
None
Region Four
215 #9 Chaz Burns (Wirt County)
aacoach108 wrote:List of AA-A ranked wrestlers who did not qualify for states out of their respective regions: (from the latest ranking, and only counting ranked wrestlers who actually wrestled, not those who scratched)
https://www.wvmat.com/polls/2402092a.htm
Region One (Previous State Placement in Parenthesis)
106 #4 Wes Files (Frankfort)
126 #5 Owen Rotruck (Keyser)
126 #8 Wyatt Wolanski (Oak Glen) (4th@120 in '23)
132 #4 Delbert Van Tassel (Cameron)
138 #4 Caden Michalski (Fairmont Sr) (6th@120 in '22)
138 #8 Alex Smith (Frankfort) (5th@126 in '23)
165 #6 LJ Diaz (East Fairmont)
165 #10 Daniel Shoemaker (Keyser)
190 #10 Krystian Norris (Berkeley Springs)
aacoach117 wrote:aacoach108 wrote:List of AA-A ranked wrestlers who did not qualify for states out of their respective regions: (from the latest ranking, and only counting ranked wrestlers who actually wrestled, not those who scratched)
https://www.wvmat.com/polls/2402092a.htm
Region One (Previous State Placement in Parenthesis)
106 #4 Wes Files (Frankfort)
126 #5 Owen Rotruck (Keyser)
126 #8 Wyatt Wolanski (Oak Glen) (4th@120 in '23)
132 #4 Delbert Van Tassel (Cameron)
138 #4 Caden Michalski (Fairmont Sr) (6th@120 in '22)
138 #8 Alex Smith (Frankfort) (5th@126 in '23)
165 #6 LJ Diaz (East Fairmont)
165 #10 Daniel Shoemaker (Keyser)
190 #10 Krystian Norris (Berkeley Springs)
What you have actually done here is proven that rankings are not a definitive judge of who the top wrestlers in a weight class are. Three of the wrestlers you listed are ranked top 4 in the state, yet they were unable to finish top 4 in their region. Conceptually, a wrestler that is ranked top 10 in the state should be able to finish at least top 4 in his/her region (with exception of weights with 5 or more ranked wrestlers). Two of those #4 ranked wrestlers lost to a lower ranked wrestler and an unranked wrestler at regionals which makes me wonder why they were ranked top 4 in the state.
Every year ranked wrestlers are not on the podium and unranked wrestlers are. That is because the rankings are for entertainment purposes and are not absolute.
Bearhugger wrote:I attended AA/A Region 1 on Saturday.
1. I was probably the only person in attendance that was not affiliated with any of the participating schools.
2. The level of competition surpassed any event I attended this past season. The only exception might be the WSAZ but it is very close.
More to come.
ringworm14 wrote:RegionOne_fan wrote:I'm not exactly new to wrestling, but how long ago was it the region 4 had twice as many ranked kids as any other to regions combined?
I don’t know about rankings, but region four placed more kids in Huntington and had more champs for a long stretch mid 2000s to mid 2010s I’d say. That’s when the Roane county boys were dominant, Calhoun was loaded, and I believe Point Pleasant has its first run. Recent enough I remember how good they were. I think region four finished 1-2-3 in a few consecutive years too but might be wrong in that. Only thing that changed that region was reclassification pushed teams up and down so they had to redo the regions to even it up. Nothing to do with the talent. The ups go down and downs go up!
“Beware of the ringworm!”
— Common Sense
aacoach117 wrote:aacoach108 wrote:List of AA-A ranked wrestlers who did not qualify for states out of their respective regions: (from the latest ranking, and only counting ranked wrestlers who actually wrestled, not those who scratched)
https://www.wvmat.com/polls/2402092a.htm
Region One (Previous State Placement in Parenthesis)
106 #4 Wes Files (Frankfort)
126 #5 Owen Rotruck (Keyser)
126 #8 Wyatt Wolanski (Oak Glen) (4th@120 in '23)
132 #4 Delbert Van Tassel (Cameron)
138 #4 Caden Michalski (Fairmont Sr) (6th@120 in '22)
138 #8 Alex Smith (Frankfort) (5th@126 in '23)
165 #6 LJ Diaz (East Fairmont)
165 #10 Daniel Shoemaker (Keyser)
190 #10 Krystian Norris (Berkeley Springs)
What you have actually done here is proven that rankings are not a definitive judge of who the top wrestlers in a weight class are. Three of the wrestlers you listed are ranked top 4 in the state, yet they were unable to finish top 4 in their region. Conceptually, a wrestler that is ranked top 10 in the state should be able to finish at least top 4 in his/her region (with exception of weights with 5 or more ranked wrestlers). Two of those #4 ranked wrestlers lost to a lower ranked wrestler and an unranked wrestler at regionals which makes me wonder why they were ranked top 4 in the state.
Every year ranked wrestlers are not on the podium and unranked wrestlers are. That is because the rankings are for entertainment purposes and are not absolute.
Weir_Coach wrote:ringworm14 wrote:RegionOne_fan wrote:I'm not exactly new to wrestling, but how long ago was it the region 4 had twice as many ranked kids as any other to regions combined?
I don’t know about rankings, but region four placed more kids in Huntington and had more champs for a long stretch mid 2000s to mid 2010s I’d say. That’s when the Roane county boys were dominant, Calhoun was loaded, and I believe Point Pleasant has its first run. Recent enough I remember how good they were. I think region four finished 1-2-3 in a few consecutive years too but might be wrong in that. Only thing that changed that region was reclassification pushed teams up and down so they had to redo the regions to even it up. Nothing to do with the talent. The ups go down and downs go up!
“Beware of the ringworm!”
— Common Sense
This is entirely false. Please show proof of this claim. Oak Glen won states every year from 97-09 and most of the top wrestlers in the state were always from Region 1. Unless you're referring to AAA, this statement is completely false. You can look at the list of state placers from those years to see how dominant Region 1 has always been since the origin of West Virginia wrestling.
Jon Perkins wrote:One last thought; A 5th place finisher in their respective region is not real likely to finish in the Top 6 competing against the entire state, no matter what their ranking was throughout the year.
Weir_Coach wrote:Jon Perkins wrote:One last thought; A 5th place finisher in their respective region is not real likely to finish in the Top 6 competing against the entire state, no matter what their ranking was throughout the year.
Jon Perkins wrote:I am sure there are plenty of examples that dispute my opinion, I will not argue that, but there are plenty of examples that support it. The point was that it is not a viable option to revise the qualification process for the entire state, just to benefit one or two people fighting for a 5th place trophy.
Lloyd Christmas wrote:Jon Perkins wrote:I am sure there are plenty of examples that dispute my opinion, I will not argue that, but there are plenty of examples that support it. The point was that it is not a viable option to revise the qualification process for the entire state, just to benefit one or two people fighting for a 5th place trophy.
What are some examples that support your claim??
Jon Perkins wrote:Lloyd Christmas wrote:Jon Perkins wrote:I am sure there are plenty of examples that dispute my opinion, I will not argue that, but there are plenty of examples that support it. The point was that it is not a viable option to revise the qualification process for the entire state, just to benefit one or two people fighting for a 5th place trophy.
What are some examples that support your claim??
The examples that support my claims is as follows:
The most competitive matches in the Regional Tournament should be the Consolation Semifinals, because it is either do or die. If you win you qualify for the state tournament and if you lose you get to sit and watch. In each region there are 28 of these matches and this year in Region One there were 21 pins. I am sorry but these are not competitive matches and those getting pinned cannot and will not compete for a spot on the podium at the state tournament.
Jon Perkins wrote:Lloyd Christmas wrote:Jon Perkins wrote:I am sure there are plenty of examples that dispute my opinion, I will not argue that, but there are plenty of examples that support it. The point was that it is not a viable option to revise the qualification process for the entire state, just to benefit one or two people fighting for a 5th place trophy.
What are some examples that support your claim??
The examples that support my claims is as follows:
The most competitive matches in the Regional Tournament should be the Consolation Semifinals, because it is either do or die. If you win you qualify for the state tournament and if you lose you get to sit and watch. In each region there are 28 of these matches and this year in Region One there were 21 pins. I am sorry but these are not competitive matches and those getting pinned cannot and will not compete for a spot on the podium at the state tournament.
Jon Perkins wrote:I am confused by all this. Everyone should be rejoicing that Region 1 is so good. The conversation should be centered around on how to make Regions 2,3,&4 better. Bringing the bottom up toward the top is far better than pushing the top back down toward the bottom.
Altering the qualification process for the state tournament is not the answer. How much money do people really want to throw at having another tournament costing schools transportation, hotels, and meals not to mention the parents having to take off work and travel. It is clear that the regions with the best wrestlers have more and better access to club wrestling year-round. I believe having good wrestlers miss out on the state tournament is a good thing, that means competition is improving.
One last thought; A 5th place finisher in their respective region is not real likely to finish in the Top 6 competing against the entire state, no matter what their ranking was throughout the year. My advice is that these wrestlers who are on the bubble of making it out of their region would be to freely transfer to another region. Take advantage of the laws your state legislature has granted you.
aacoach107 wrote:Jon Perkins wrote:I am confused by all this. Everyone should be rejoicing that Region 1 is so good. The conversation should be centered around on how to make Regions 2,3,&4 better. Bringing the bottom up toward the top is far better than pushing the top back down toward the bottom.
Altering the qualification process for the state tournament is not the answer. How much money do people really want to throw at having another tournament costing schools transportation, hotels, and meals not to mention the parents having to take off work and travel. It is clear that the regions with the best wrestlers have more and better access to club wrestling year-round. I believe having good wrestlers miss out on the state tournament is a good thing, that means competition is improving.
One last thought; A 5th place finisher in their respective region is not real likely to finish in the Top 6 competing against the entire state, no matter what their ranking was throughout the year. My advice is that these wrestlers who are on the bubble of making it out of their region would be to freely transfer to another region. Take advantage of the laws your state legislature has granted you.
Not looking for controversy, but want to point out a fact about your last comment and I believe there are several instances where a 5th place finisher in Region 1 has been on the podium at the State Tournament over the years. I am sure someone in another Region also has placed 5th in their respective Region and been on the podium the following week, I can only speak for Region 1 A/AA.
More particularly, 2009, a kid from Oak Glen placed 5th at the Regional wrestling tournament, and was in the Finals at the State Tournament then next week. Not only did this kid place as runner up at the 189 pound division, but I am pretty sure that without him in the tournament, Point Pleasant would had won the Team title, thus ending the Oak Glen run. The Oak Glen wrestler beat a Point Pleasant wrestler in the quarters and by the Oak Glen kid placing 2nd and the victory over the Point kid, those points were the difference maker for Oak Glens State Championship!
mscoach20 wrote:aacoach107 wrote:Jon Perkins wrote:I am confused by all this. Everyone should be rejoicing that Region 1 is so good. The conversation should be centered around on how to make Regions 2,3,&4 better. Bringing the bottom up toward the top is far better than pushing the top back down toward the bottom.
Altering the qualification process for the state tournament is not the answer. How much money do people really want to throw at having another tournament costing schools transportation, hotels, and meals not to mention the parents having to take off work and travel. It is clear that the regions with the best wrestlers have more and better access to club wrestling year-round. I believe having good wrestlers miss out on the state tournament is a good thing, that means competition is improving.
One last thought; A 5th place finisher in their respective region is not real likely to finish in the Top 6 competing against the entire state, no matter what their ranking was throughout the year. My advice is that these wrestlers who are on the bubble of making it out of their region would be to freely transfer to another region. Take advantage of the laws your state legislature has granted you.
Not looking for controversy, but want to point out a fact about your last comment and I believe there are several instances where a 5th place finisher in Region 1 has been on the podium at the State Tournament over the years. I am sure someone in another Region also has placed 5th in their respective Region and been on the podium the following week, I can only speak for Region 1 A/AA.
More particularly, 2009, a kid from Oak Glen placed 5th at the Regional wrestling tournament, and was in the Finals at the State Tournament then next week. Not only did this kid place as runner up at the 189 pound division, but I am pretty sure that without him in the tournament, Point Pleasant would had won the Team title, thus ending the Oak Glen run. The Oak Glen wrestler beat a Point Pleasant wrestler in the quarters and by the Oak Glen kid placing 2nd and the victory over the Point kid, those points were the difference maker for Oak Glens State Championship!
Montero was his name. Highly respected kid from Oak Glen, alot of coaches felt he was a top 2 kid in state heading in to regionals, was the two seed I believe in that region, and he got thrown and stuck twice. Remember that vividly. Radabaugh, Williamstown wrestler (regional champ), did some training on Sunday and broke his leg, if I'm not mistaken. Montero scored 18 points and Oak Glen won by 20. Very feasible that was the deciding factor.
mscoach20 wrote:aacoach107 wrote:Jon Perkins wrote:I am confused by all this. Everyone should be rejoicing that Region 1 is so good. The conversation should be centered around on how to make Regions 2,3,&4 better. Bringing the bottom up toward the top is far better than pushing the top back down toward the bottom.
Altering the qualification process for the state tournament is not the answer. How much money do people really want to throw at having another tournament costing schools transportation, hotels, and meals not to mention the parents having to take off work and travel. It is clear that the regions with the best wrestlers have more and better access to club wrestling year-round. I believe having good wrestlers miss out on the state tournament is a good thing, that means competition is improving.
One last thought; A 5th place finisher in their respective region is not real likely to finish in the Top 6 competing against the entire state, no matter what their ranking was throughout the year. My advice is that these wrestlers who are on the bubble of making it out of their region would be to freely transfer to another region. Take advantage of the laws your state legislature has granted you.
Not looking for controversy, but want to point out a fact about your last comment and I believe there are several instances where a 5th place finisher in Region 1 has been on the podium at the State Tournament over the years. I am sure someone in another Region also has placed 5th in their respective Region and been on the podium the following week, I can only speak for Region 1 A/AA.
More particularly, 2009, a kid from Oak Glen placed 5th at the Regional wrestling tournament, and was in the Finals at the State Tournament then next week. Not only did this kid place as runner up at the 189 pound division, but I am pretty sure that without him in the tournament, Point Pleasant would had won the Team title, thus ending the Oak Glen run. The Oak Glen wrestler beat a Point Pleasant wrestler in the quarters and by the Oak Glen kid placing 2nd and the victory over the Point kid, those points were the difference maker for Oak Glens State Championship!
Montero was his name. Highly respected kid from Oak Glen, alot of coaches felt he was a top 2 kid in state heading in to regionals, was the two seed I believe in that region, and he got thrown and stuck twice. Remember that vividly. Radabaugh, Williamstown wrestler (regional champ), did some training on Sunday and broke his leg, if I'm not mistaken. Montero scored 18 points and Oak Glen won by 20. Very feasible that was the deciding factor.
Jon Perkins wrote:Lloyd Christmas wrote:Jon Perkins wrote:I am sure there are plenty of examples that dispute my opinion, I will not argue that, but there are plenty of examples that support it. The point was that it is not a viable option to revise the qualification process for the entire state, just to benefit one or two people fighting for a 5th place trophy.
What are some examples that support your claim??
The examples that support my claims is as follows:
The most competitive matches in the Regional Tournament should be the Consolation Semifinals, because it is either do or die. If you win you qualify for the state tournament and if you lose you get to sit and watch. In each region there are 28 of these matches and this year in Region One there were 21 pins. I am sorry but these are not competitive matches and those getting pinned cannot and will not compete for a spot on the podium at the state tournament.
HiCoach wrote:mscoach20 wrote:aacoach107 wrote:
Not looking for controversy, but want to point out a fact about your last comment and I believe there are several instances where a 5th place finisher in Region 1 has been on the podium at the State Tournament over the years. I am sure someone in another Region also has placed 5th in their respective Region and been on the podium the following week, I can only speak for Region 1 A/AA.
More particularly, 2009, a kid from Oak Glen placed 5th at the Regional wrestling tournament, and was in the Finals at the State Tournament then next week. Not only did this kid place as runner up at the 189 pound division, but I am pretty sure that without him in the tournament, Point Pleasant would had won the Team title, thus ending the Oak Glen run. The Oak Glen wrestler beat a Point Pleasant wrestler in the quarters and by the Oak Glen kid placing 2nd and the victory over the Point kid, those points were the difference maker for Oak Glens State Championship!
Montero was his name. Highly respected kid from Oak Glen, alot of coaches felt he was a top 2 kid in state heading in to regionals, was the two seed I believe in that region, and he got thrown and stuck twice. Remember that vividly. Radabaugh, Williamstown wrestler (regional champ), did some training on Sunday and broke his leg, if I'm not mistaken. Montero scored 18 points and Oak Glen won by 20. Very feasible that was the deciding factor.
I was on that team and buddies with Radabaugh. He broke his leg the night of regionals after slipping on ice on an inclined driveway. Most people were running from Gallaher from Grafton in that weight anyways. Good memory you have there!
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